Religious extremism growing at a rapid pace

[Warren Stupidity]

In many countries, radical religious groups have organized themselves as political parties, with ominous consequences for those who don’t share their views. The Muslim world is the prime example, but nominal Christian societies as well as Israel are also greatly burdened by religious fanaticism disguised as party politics.

It has led to a polarization between indifferent secularists and radical extremists. The latter have much more fire in their bellies and are frequently bent on using the democratic system they despise to their advantage.
In Israel, for example, there have been cases of segregated public transport with women sitting at the rear to accommodate ultra-Orthodox men. In Saudi Arabia, women aren’t even allowed to drive a car. Perhaps this has influenced the York student.

The polarization brought about by fanatics plays into the hands of atheists who have a need to point to religion in its most bizarre manifestations as proof of its depravity. There’s thus a perhaps unintended unholy alliance between radicals at both ends of the spectrum that’s further weakening the moderate centre.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/02/03/religious_extremism_growing_at_a_rapid_pace_marmur.html

Well indeed, as a liberal religionist, faced with the appalling growth of religious extremism, why not blame those other radical extremists, atheists. They also have a hideous agenda to deny basic human rights etc, and who obviously are in an unholy alliance with your fellow religionists.

[Htom Sirveaux]

1. I empathize with your annoyance.

It.does stink when others try to put you in the same camp as the extremists whom you completely oppose.

[skepticscott]

2. Well, there are a few even in this group

who enjoy claiming that "militant" atheists are no different and no better than militant religious extremists. Because, don't you know, everything about atheists and religionists HAS to be exactly the same.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. Did you want to make your point a bit more explicit?

[Htom Sirveaux]

11. I didn't think it needed to be.

Nobody here, believer or atheist, likes being linked to fundamentalism. That's not really an earth-shattering revelation, is it?

[Warren Stupidity]

12. There is a major area of common ground between religious fundamentalists and religious liberals

even if the religious liberals here don't like that fact. What exactly is the common ground between religious fundamentalists and atheists?

[Htom Sirveaux]

13. What is the major area of common ground, in your opinion? n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

14. religion, obviously.

your turn.

[Htom Sirveaux]

15. Can you be more specific?

There are enough meaningful differences between the groups to warrant identifying them as separate factions in the first place. So what similarities do you find significant enough to be "major areas of common ground"?

[Warren Stupidity]

17. no. Your turn, what is the common ground between atheism and religiuous extremism?

[kwassa]

20. Both can have extremist practitioners.

the very obvious answer.

[skepticscott]

22. And how does one "practice" atheism?

Give us a list of the "practices" that "extremist" atheism entails.

A list of practices engaged in by anti-theists will be taken as evidence that you have no idea what you're talking about, btw.

Go ahead.

[kwassa]

26. An anti-theist would be a subset of atheists.

[skepticscott]

29. Wrong. Try again.

Not all anti-theists are atheists.

Next!

[Warren Stupidity]

23. no really there is no such thing as extreme atheism.

and all religious extremists are extremists.

I'm extremely not believing your post was well thought out.

[kwassa]

27. Oh, yes there is, and I've seen them right here on DU.

Militant atheism is a reality.

[skepticscott]

30. Then you should have no trouble providing examples, right?

Well, actually, I predict you will, since you clearly can't even make the elementary distinction between atheism and anti-theism.

[trotsky]

31. What exactly is it that "militant atheists" do, kwassa?

What classifies an atheist as "militant" in your opinion? Speaking his or her mind on religion?

[rug]

33. It's really simple.

[cleanhippie]

38. Great advice. You should take it to heart.

[rug]

42. QED

[Starboard Tack]

50. Perfect!

Somehow, they just don't get it.

[Htom Sirveaux]

21. I haven't endorsed a claim of connection between atheism and fundamentalism.

So I don't understand why you are asking me to defend it. But you did claim that there is a major area of common ground between liberals and fundamentalists. I don't think it's asking too much to want you to fully explain and defend your claim.

[Warren Stupidity]

24. the point is there is none.

there is a connection between people who are religious, they are all religious. They believe fundamental things about the nature of reality that are based on faith rather than evidence. The set of religious people excludes all atheists. It includes both liberal and non-liberal religious people. In fact, the liberal subset is a vast minority of the set of religious people. The claim I made is self evident, it is in the commonly understood meaning of the term "religious".

[Htom Sirveaux]

25. If that's a meaningful area of common ground,

and not a trivial generality akin to pointing out that water and hydrogen cyanide are both liquids, then why aren't all religious people fundamentalists?

[Act_of_Reparation]

34. Probably for the same reason not all socialists are communists

Extremism of any form requires more dedication to a premise than most are willing to extend.

[Starboard Tack]

36. You missed out the important word "extreme" before atheism

Then the common ground would be intolerance of everyone who does not hold similarly extreme views on religion.

[Warren Stupidity]

41. The quality of non-belief is either on or off.

'extreme non-belief" is nonsense.

[Starboard Tack]

43. Who said "extreme non-belief"? Not me.

I said "extreme" before your use of the word "atheism" might provide you with the common ground you seek.
A better term might be "extreme anti-theist". Are you OK with that? Do you identify with that?

There is no "quality of non-belief" or "quality of belief". Quantity, perhaps, but not quality. Quality demands some kind of value judgement.

I am a non-believer, when it comes to almighty creators, messiahs and miracle workers. In my mind, that makes me an atheist.
However, I do believe in the existence of the soul, in humans and in animals and am open to its existence beyond that. Does that make me a theist? Does it make me an impure atheist? Am I stupid because I cannot demonstrate to the ardent non-believers, that such things may exist?

[Warren Stupidity]

44. an anti-theist is not the same as an atheist.

But you know that.

"quality demands some kind of value judgement" - only if you are again engaged in argument by equivocation. That is not the meaning of the term in its use case.

qual·i·ty
noun
1.
the standard of something as measured against other things of a similar kind; the degree of excellence of something.
2.
a distinctive attribute or characteristic possessed by someone or something.

You are arguing using (1), and I am pretty sure you understand that (2), the other common meaning, "a property" was obviously intended.

[Starboard Tack]

45. Of course they are not the same, but some are both.

I have the feeling that you might fall into that category. Am I correct? An honest response on your part would avoid any equivocation.

[Warren Stupidity]

46. words have meaning and when arguments are made that deliberately misuse words

those arguments are dishonest.

[Starboard Tack]

47. What argument are you referring to?

We've cleared up the equivocation. We have established common ground as atheists. So, do you want to answer my question? Are you also an anti-theist?

[rug]

16. There is a greater area of common ground with nonreligious progressives and religious progressives.

Atheism itself is simply silent politically.

Antitheism by definition exists simply to oppose theism.

With whom do you suppose an antitheist shares more common values, a conservative atheist or a progressive theist?

[Warren Stupidity]

18. Use your clairvoyance.

[rug]

19. I already used observation.

Doesn't look good.

[Starboard Tack]

37. Excellently put. nt

[cleanhippie]

39. Which directly contradicts what you just posted above.

36. You missed out the important word "extreme" before atheism
Then the common ground would be intolerance of everyone who does not hold similarly extreme views on religion. [/

[trotsky]

3. "religion in its most bizarre manifestations"

Who gets to define what "bizarre" is?

Is exorcism bizarre? Circumcision? Baptism? The belief that a man was dead for couple of days then came back to life and anyone who believes this gets a place in eternal bliss?

One man's bizarre manifestation is another man's deeply held belief and how DARE you call it "bizarre!"

[Act_of_Reparation]

35. While we're at it, can we agree upon what makes a believer a "fundamentalist"?

Seems to me that word is thrown around more than it probably should be.

[trotsky]

40. Yes, it would be nice to get some clarification on that.

I think a lot of people use it as a synonym for "literalist," but that's a tricky word to use because even the wackiest right-wing nut doesn't take ALL of the bible literally, and even the most liberal Christian takes at least PARTS of it literally. So every Christian is a literalist in some sense.

[Leontius]

48. To some even the slightest nod to any social conservative views is enough reach for the branding

iron.

[Act_of_Reparation]

49. We might not often find ourselves in agreement, but I think you're absolutely right. n/t

[Brettongarcia]

4. Reminds me somehow of the argument that the Devil made dinosaurs, to confuse us

And make us believe in evolution.

Regarding this specific example? Of course it would be a dangerous strategy in the long run for atheists to encourage their greatest enemies, religious extremists, for short-term gains.

[Dawson Leery]

5. "The polarization brought about by fanatics plays into the hands of atheists"

It does not play into the hands of atheists, the fanatics are demonstrating the depravity.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. It is important to blame external agents.

Otherwise liberal religionists would have to seriously consider the role of religion itself in the rise of extremist religions.

[trotsky]

7. It's not about religion so stop saying that!!!

[rug]

9. Gee, you might actually have to discuss something else.

[Goblinmonger]

28. That's rich

Thanks for the laugh

[rug]

32. It doesn't take much.

[Htom Sirveaux]

10. Of course religion is a necessary condition for extremist religion.

Just like sex is a necessary condition for sexual assault.

[Agnosticsherbet]

51. This is a process at work in every quarter of the human sphere.

I've wondered if the complexity of the world and the pace of change have become so great that large numbers of people reject change and embrace a slower, more religious view. by laying everything in the lap of God and then attacking those with different views.