Religion
Related: About this forumPhyllis Tickle’s Holy Ghost heresy
Jonathan Merritt
Phyllis Tickle may look like a sweet grandmother, but do not be fooled. She’s sassy, smart, and always does her homework.
Tickle is founding editor of the religion department at “Publisher’s Weekly,” the author of multiple books, and a matriarch among many progressive Protestants. For several years, she’s argued that Christianity undergoes a massive transformation every 500 or so years and is currently entering a period she has labeled “the Great Emergence.” Here, we discuss her newest book, “The Age of the Spirit: How the Ghost of an Ancient Controversy is Shaping the Church,” and the revival of interest in the Holy Spirit seen in churches across the theological spectrum. Her answers, which she labels “heresy,” will undoubtedly make some Christians squirm.
RNS: Phyllis, you’re always out there stirring up trouble and I can assume you’re doing no less with this book. Why did you want to write a book about the Holy Spirit?
PT: You cut right to the chase, don’t you Mr. Merritt? I began the whole business of chasing emergence Christianity when I was at “Publisher’s Weekly” and I began to write about how this was one of many upheavals in Christian history. When my first two books on the topic were finished, it was clear that this thing that what was happening—whatever you want to call it—was going to have the significance of what we saw 2000 years ago. And one of the key characteristics of this period is the completion of the Trinity, whereby we engage the third part of the Trinity more
- See more at: http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com/2014/02/05/phyllis-tickle-modern-christians-holy-ghost-revival/#sthash.G9AvKjxR.dpuf
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muriel_volestrangler
(101,265 posts)So she's a young earth creationist. This makes me question if she can be called 'progressive', since it means denying basic reality.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I think she was saying why didn't Jesus come to earlier humans.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,265 posts)Although that is, admittedly, the bible literalist interval between Adam and now, not Adam and Jesus. If she was dealing with reality, she'd have said "100,000 years" or "so long" or something.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)From what I know of her she is not a fundamentalist.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)And that's my problem with religious thinking: Employ broken epistemology to arrive at predetermined conclusions, completely armored against external reality checks.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)it's one of those OTHER ways of knowing! And we all know how successful they are...
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Or Fred Phelps.
Why does the Holy Spirit fail to guide them to the same interpretations you have?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
Meshuga
(6,182 posts)How does the Holy Spirit guide you but doesn't guide Pat Robertson in the same direction?
It sounds to me that you get out of scripture whatever you wish to get out of scripture. In other words, scripture is not the vehicle to extract your values from. Instead, you attribute your own values to scripture. Pat Robertson does the same thing except that his values are totally different than your.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I get some of my values from it but not all. I pray to the Holy Spirit to help me get from it what God wants me to get from it.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Let's say the probability of God existing is 1; that is to say, he definitely exists.
You and Pat Robertson both claim to arrived at interpretations of scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit. Since there's no way for me to know, a priori, which one of you is correct, I have 50% chance (using Pascal's Wager, 1/n) of backing the wrong horse should I choose to decide which one of you to believe.
But there are literally thousands of people claiming the same thing, each one with their own interpretation of scripture. Statistically, my chances of discovering the true, inspired word of God decrease exponentially.
In other words, if there is a God, and he does reveal secrets to his peeps, there's a very good chance you're wrong, and that I'd most likely go to hell for believing you.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)and don't appreciate being compared to him.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Your methods of interpreting your bible are.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)If he prays to the same God I do I can not help that.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)But your inability to understand the root of the problem is frustrating, to say the least.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)So there's no reason to get upset.
I'm merely demonstrating the unreliability of revelation. That's all.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)He claims the Holy Spirit talks to him, others report a more subjective experience, like a burning sensation in their breast. In any event, the point is plenty of people pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance when reading scripture, and the revelation is, to say the least, inconsistent. Who can say whether they are doing it correctly or not; it's not like we have official documentation from the Big Man Upstairs detailing how this procedure is supposed to work.
At the end of the day, people using the same method of "knowing" arrive at vastly contradictory conclusions. I can only conclude this method isn't to be trusted; that observation and testing remain the only reliable methods we have of acquiring and organizing knowledge.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Sorry if that bothers you, but it's a fact. And at times you seem as mired in "faith" and "belief " and as immune to evidence or reason as he is.