How Not To Be A Dick To An Atheist

[rug]

Please don’t console me with sayings like “God has a plan for you” or “They went to be with Jesus” when something bad happens.



I actually think dressing up was my favorite part.

Josie P.
6 Hours Ago

Like many others from blue collar, Mid-Western background, I was socialized early on to believe in a benevolent, omnipotent “Jesus” who solved all of my problems and whom I could ask for special favors. Every Sunday, my mother would dress us in our frilliest, girliest, floral 80s dresses and parade us off to a towering Methodist institution.

This persisted for years, despite my infantile wails of protest. As I got older, I went to Sunday school, choir practice, and even youth mission trips, but somehow something never felt quite right about it all. When I became a teenager, I realized that I had some very fundamental objections to Christianity and its teachings.

I left organized religion at 19, and with the exception of major holidays (during which I occasionally go to a service to make my mother happy) never looked back. I think that religious beliefs (or lack thereof) are a deeply intimate, personal thing. As a result, I try not to push my beliefs on anyone, and expect the same.

Unfortunately, my laid back attitude is not always reciprocated. I am constantly harangued by people who treat me not like an adult who after years of consideration decided to be an atheist, but rather as a misguided child. This trend extends itself on a broader scale as well -- a recent study even proved that atheists are the least trusted group in the U.S.

http://www.xojane.com/relationships/how-not-to-be-a-dick-to-an-atheist

[enough]

1. I like your thread title. I just realized that as an athiest I have spent my entire

life trying not to be a dick to all the believers everywhere.

Maybe I'll stop trying. Except that I do feel it's important to try not to be a dick in general. Not everybody seems to agree with this, I've noticed.

[bravenak]

2. I agree.

I'm nice if they are nice. If not, i'm not.

[LostOne4Ever]

3. Go by the name of Richard instead (nt)

[Fumesucker]

4. Anything the average theist can say about religion the average atheist has already heard

However there's a good chance that what the average atheist has to say about religion the average theist may well not have heard.

[cbayer]

8. Oh, fumesucker, that is so not true.

Everyone has something to say that I haven't heard before.

It just seems arrogant to attribute some heightened enlightenment to a group because of what they don't believe.

FWIW, everything on this young woman's lists, I have read in similar articles. Still, I enjoyed her perspective and her anecdotes (particularly her story about the woman on the bus in latin america).

I think you make a mistake with your assumptions and close the door on many, many people by assuming that you have heard it all before.

[Fumesucker]

10. This culture is religion drenched, we talk about religion (particularly Christianity) constantly

There are churches on every corner, there is a religion section in many major newspapers, every politician ends every speech with God Bless America and so on and so on.

On the other hand I've never knowingly met another atheist.

If I wish to keep the peace with the people I'm around the great majority of the time I have to listen to them prattle on about Jesus and God and the awesomeness of worship and prayer and keep my mouth shut about my own thoughts.

Who do you think has more to say that hasn't been heard before by the average person?

[cbayer]

13. Yes, this country has a lot of believers.

There are much fewer atheists and if you have never even met one, then I am sure that explains why you would prefer to hear what they have to say.

It's too bad that you live in a place where people talk about religion all the time. Not everywhere is like that. I'm living in a place with an extraordinarily high degree of religiosity, but I rarely hear it spoken of.

I will maintain, however, that everyone has something unique to say and for you to take the position that you've heard everything that any christian could say already is unfortunate.

My father lives in a community of retired religious people. They are decidedly politically progressive and many worked around the world. They are some of the most interesting people you might ever meet and I would bet that they have a lot to say you haven't heard before.

The problem seems to be that you have heard primarily from fundamentalists, and when it comes to religion, they do have a tendency to talk the party line.

[Fumesucker]

18. I grew up an Episcopalian

About as liberal as it gets in mainstream American Christianity, but it was definitely a minority point of view, I also attended Baptist churches sometimes for reasons too complicated to go into and I got a very different (and much more popular evidently) view of religion there.

Over the last decade or so I've heard "have a nice day" or "have a great day" evolve into "have a blessed day" from practically everyone I talk to. In many ways we seem to be going backwards at least from my point of view.

The Asimov quote I put up the other day was my downfall too, the one about the Bible properly read being the greatest tool for making unbelievers. I read the Bible on my own and when I got to the end realized that I hadn't been able to will myself into a suspension of disbelief like I could reading Lord of the Rings, A Case of Conscience, Stranger in a Strange Land or A Canticle For Leibowitz .

[cbayer]

19. I never hear "Have a blessed day", but i do, of course, hear "Adios" daily.

And that translates as "go with god", right? I doubt the the spanish speaking world is likely to change that ever.

So maybe we could look at blessed in a different way.. Perhaps it is just a wish that your day go well and that the sun shines on your pointy little head, lol.

I read the bible at several different points in my life. Some of it I liked, some I treasured, some put me to sleep and some I found just outright ridiculous.

But it didn't really change what I believed or didn't believe, nor did I expect that it would. And at no time have I considered it literally, other than possibly parts of the gospels.

[longship]

5. Some good advice there.

Way to go, Josie P. I wish every religious person would read that column.

R&K

[MellowDem]

6. If merely saying what your religion believes...

is dickish, maybe it's time to reevaluate your beliefs.

Pope Francis hasn't got there yet. He's still at the "just don't say the dickish beliefs we have out loud, only focus on the non-dickish ones" stage. But you, dear reader, can outdo even the Pope, not to mention many other religious leaders, on intellectual honesty and self-discovery of your own beliefs simply by questioning all of them with the same scrutiny you would any claim.

I remember when I was religious, I was mostly indoctrinated in all the nice beliefs. It's a good strategy for indoctrination. The dickish beliefs weren't given as much attention, but they were there, and they troubled me. So I read the Bible myself, and saw quite a lot of dickish beliefs everywhere. The being I was supposed to worship was a huge dick. Eventually I couldn't honestly identify with such a mean belief system. And after a while I got over the fear of hell and openly questioned all of my beliefs, nice ones included.

If your beliefs make you uncomfortable, it's probably because you don't really believe them. Be honest with yourself about why you are uncomfortable, and feel free to admit you don't believe things you thought you did. Be comfortable in being wrong. It makes the world a lot more bearable and interesting.

[rug]

9. Um, no.

I don't attribute an asshole's dickishness to what he does or does not believe.

A person is perfectly capable of doing that all by himself.

[MellowDem]

20. I do...

Because to me, if you believe terrible things, your a dick. That's why the best strategy of dicks everywhere is to hide their dickish ness.

[rug]

21. You must be surrounded by dicks if you're judging the worth of everyone's thoughts.

Of course, there is another possibility.

[MellowDem]

22. We all judge the worth of everyone's thoughts...

Once we hear them out loud. Which is why so many religious progressives don't want to hear the Popes beliefs on certain subjects out loud. It's denial. And then they'll lash out at those that point it out, even say such silly shit like the beliefs of others don't reflect on their character, cause it's hard, thankless work defending bigoted beliefs that are privileged, but someone's got to so it.

[rug]

23. That's imaccurate and judgmental. Not to mention terrible.

[MellowDem]

24. No, it's right on the money.

[rug]

25. No, it's a terrible thing you believe. What does that make you?

[MellowDem]

26. What's a terrible thing?

Sorry, your deflection makes no sense any more. Maybe you can piece together some more nonsensical words?

[rug]

27. This.

Which is why so many religious progressives don't want to hear the Popes beliefs on certain subjects out loud. It's denial. And then they'll lash out at those that point it out, even say such silly shit like the beliefs of others don't reflect on their character, cause it's hard, thankless work defending bigoted beliefs that are privileged, but someone's got to so it.

Believing bullshit is a terrible thing.

[MellowDem]

28. I've seen it happen mutliple times..

so it's certainly not bullshit.

Now, I will say I don't believe that the devil is behind gay marriage. But you know who does? Da Pope. Who knows though, maybe he has seen the devil with his own eyes like I've seen hilarious bullshit apologetics.

[rug]

29. That's puzzled me.

Who benefits from opposing same sex marriage? Assuming it's not simply religious zealotry, which I do, the answer I keep coming back to is it's the same class that benefits from the divisions based on gender, race, religion and ethnicity. The divisions themselves are their source of power and control

[cbayer]

7. Seems simple enough.

[Fumesucker]

12. But in a culture where religion is the default it's not that simple

I hear stuff nearly every day that if I chose to be offended by it I could, most of the time I just chalk it up to unconscious cultural chauvinism and let it roll off my back like water off a duck.

[cbayer]

14. Unfortunately, those that really need to read this are never going to see it.

It sounds like you run into the kinds of things she describes frequently.

What if you left printouts of this around the places you frequent? Is there any church in your area that might be interested in an "Ask an Atheist" forum.

You tend to be very thoughtful and articulate and a good person to do this. Is there not a single progressive church in your community?

[Fumesucker]

15. I'm a very good reader out loud but not a particularly good speaker

Too many pauses looking for just the right word or phraseology. It doesn't show when I write but I'm not particularly convincing verbally because I'm often hesitant and I do not like face to face confrontation. I enjoy people to a big extent but I'm also possessed of a very caustic tongue that I have to monitor constantly or it gets me in situations I'd rather not have to deal with.

You'd probably be surprised how many posts I start on DU and never finish, sometimes I delete even longish pieces because I'm not happy with the way I put things and can't think of a better way in a reasonable time frame.

For instance as a long term bicyclist I have some things I would like to say about safety in general and helmets in particular but those type of posts tend to attract a lot of negative attention from people who have their minds made up and are not willing to listen to a voice of experience. And bicycles are a far less conflict prone topic than religion.

In truth I'm more of a counterpuncher in comments rather than an OP kind of guy. I don't make that many OPs and when I do they are rarely very confrontational ones.

[cbayer]

16. What a great description of yourself!

I love that you can see your areas of weakness while simultaneously seeing where your strengths are.

Your posts are usually great and often provocative. I like to challenge you because you engage in a civil and articulate way that usually makes it fun to talk to you. I am not as thoughtful as you, though, and often blurt out things better left unsaid.

Not having lived in communities such as yours, I need to be more understanding of what it must be like. I was raised in and have generally lived in communities where differences are encouraged, strong positions are supported and debate/discussion is required.

Despite being a minister's kid, I have rarely been preached to and have little tolerance for it. So I feel for you.

Still, I wish for you the opportunity to find some like minded people and to help further the cause of "normalizing" atheism.

[Fumesucker]

11. You mean like Wolf Blizer to the atheist woman whose home had just been devastated by tornado?

[Leontius]

17. Amazing how the word dick has become so popular since well