Religion
Related: About this forumLiberals are overlooking a major political ally: Yes, there’s a religious left!
It's one thing to attack the religious right -- but another to condemn the religious. A vital warning for liberalsELIZABETH STOKER
An umbrella group of expressly non-religious organizations, such as the recently CPAC-banned American Atheists, released a report card for Congress last week, grading senators and representatives on their record of keeping church and state separate. Predictably, the group, called the Secular Coalition for America, did not rate Americas legislators high, with over half netting Fs. The breakdown of the lucky few who managed to score As was telling: All were Democrats.
If the SCA hadnt released the rubric it used that is, its analysis of specific pieces of legislation most would still likely accept the outcome of its scoring, as were used to warily monitoring the machinations of the so-called religious right. But the SCA did release its rubric, and therefore its logic is open to inquiry, and its not nearly so sound or clear-cut as the simple metric of a report card might suggest.
One of the bills a legislator would need to sponsor in order to score a 100 percent, for instance, was a resolution to create a national Darwin Day celebrating Charles Darwin and the importance of science in the betterment of humanity. Another was the Health Care Conscience Rights Act, which would amend the existing Public Health Service Act to protect the right to conscientious abstention to healthcare providers who, for moral reasons, object to performing abortion or similar medical procedures. At first glance, both of these seem like fairly reasonable items to include on the SCAs report card; after all, both have to do with particular worldviews and moral schemas. On second glance, however, it becomes unclear what either piece of legislation has to do with the stated purpose of the SCA report card: that is, to monitor the tendency of politicians to blur distinctions between church and state.
A healthy respect for Charles Darwin isnt exclusive to atheists, for example. A number of Christian churches including the Roman Catholic, United Methodist and the Church of England have shown a great deal of amenability to the theory of evolution, and are never the institutions to object to its teaching. As for the role of scientific inquiry in the betterment of humanity, its absurd and insulting to imagine only non-religious people to be interested in the improvement of human life through scientific progress.
more
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/04/liberals_are_overlooking_a_major_political_ally_yes_theres_a_religious_left/
doxydad
(1,363 posts)Science and faith can go hand in hand.
Welcome to DU and the religion room.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)what do we do?
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)What does that tell you?
uriel1972
(4,261 posts)as to how atheist friendly they are. Bad atheists, Bad, Bad.
On a second note, since when were majority of liberals, atheists?
muriel_volestrangler
(101,306 posts)means contraception, as in the Hobby Lobby case.
...
(2)
require a sponsor (or, in the case of health insurance coverage offered to students through an institution of higher education, the institution of higher education offering such coverage) to sponsor, purchase, or provide any health benefits coverage or group health plan that includes coverage of an abortion or other item or service to which such sponsor or institution, respectively, has a moral or religious objection, or prevent an issuer from offering or issuing to such sponsor or institution, respectively, health insurance coverage that excludes such item or service;
(3)
require an issuer of health insurance coverage or the sponsor of a group health plan to include, in any such coverage or plan, coverage of an abortion or other item or service to which such issuer or sponsor has a moral or religious objection; or
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s1204/text
That's a law to support Hobby Lobby's crap. Anyone sponsoring that bill (which is the metric for that one) should be downgraded. It's saying companies can have moral and religious objections to things which should allow them to disadvantage their employees. It's a blatant example of church-state interference.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)I agree with the sentiment that the religious left and the atheist left probably agree more than they disagree, but this particularly criticism of the score card method is not very well done.
Most scorecards by any organization always seem at least somewhat arbitrary.
Bryant
trotsky
(49,533 posts)In 2002, every single US senator - Democrat and Republican - voted to pass a resolution affirming the use of "under god" in the Pledge of Allegiance. They later appeared on the US Capitol steps to reinforce the second-class status of atheists in America. Hooray!
So let's chide a secular group (which obviously means the same thing as atheist group, right?) scoring legislators on their church-state separation support.
Oh and then let's make the outlandish related claim that somehow the left is all about attacking religion. How many Democratic senators joined in the pledge defense? Oh yeah, ALL OF THEM.
Fortinbras Armstrong
(4,473 posts)"Oh, we poor atheists are being discriminated against."
trotsky
(49,533 posts)You confirm everything bad about your religion, FA. Jesus must be so proud of your hatred.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)[div class=excerpt]A healthy respect for Charles Darwin isnt exclusive to atheists, for example. A number of Christian churches including the Roman Catholic, United Methodist and the Church of England have shown a great deal of amenability to the theory of evolution, and are never the institutions to object to its teaching. As for the role of scientific inquiry in the betterment of humanity, its absurd and insulting to imagine only non-religious people to be interested in the improvement of human life through scientific progress.
Who the fuck claimed a healthy respect for Charles Darwin is exclusive to atheists? Anyone? No, I didnt think so.
Despite the authors misgivings, the Darwin Day bill is an appropriate metric to measure secularity. The bill itself is benign; a mere official recognition of Darwins impact on modern science. It wasnt proposed to make it a national fucking holiday; kids werent going to get the day off school, and Macys sure as shit wasnt about to throw a Darwin-day parade. It would have been Arbor Day for Charles Darwin. Not costing anyone anything but political capital, there is virtually no reason to oppose the bill unless one 1) doesnt believe in evolution (in which case one is allowing their own religious beliefs to cloud their objectivity), or 2) doesnt want to alienate voters in their state or district (in which case one is allowing the religious beliefs of the majority to cloud their objectivity).
[div class=excerpt]Its even more bizarre to try to work out exactly what that would have to do with the separation of church and state, unless it would be necessary for the SCA that a legislator vote in favor of literally everything that did not compromise the separation of church and state in order to score a 100 percent, rather than simply refusing to vote for things that would compromise that separation. Under a metric that silly, a legislator could refuse to sponsor National Everyone Is Now a Christian Day and also refuse to sponsor National Bert and Ernie Day and still fail to score an A merely because Bert and Ernie dont compromise the separation of church and state and thus, like Charles Darwin, necessarily belong in the orbit of legislation by some strange metric.
It is awfully funny that the Secular Coalition of America would be measuring secularity. What on earth are they thinking?
Talk about insulting. This clown is essentially suggesting non-believers would look at the SCAs report cards and vote accordingly, without consideration given to the candidates positions on issues other than secularism.
The UFCW doesnt rate politicians based on gun policy. The NAACP doesnt rate politicians based on their positions on net neutrality. The NEA doesnt rate politicians based on their stances on renewable energy. Special interest groups rate politicians in relation to their particular special interest. Funny how that works.
[div class=excerpt]The same story applies to the bill that would protect rights of conscience. First, a person can conscientiously object to a practice without any involvement in religion whatsoever. Second, the act would signal the governments refusal to act upon individuals who, for reasons of conscience, did not want to perform a particular service. In that sense its a clear-cut push for neutrality: Abortion and other objectionable procedures will remain legal, its just that people who disagree with them will be able to abjure without consequence. This is a retreat of religion from the public sphere into the private, not an example of the state confirming a particular set of necessarily religious beliefs by enacting the beliefs themselves.
This is an issue of medical ethics; simply put, whether or not a physician should be allowed to cause a patient harm because of his or her religious beliefs. Few would argue a Jehovas Witness would be justified in denying a patient access to a blood transfusion based on his or her asinine reading of religious scripture, and if such a thing were to happen, the doctor in question would likely find himself or herself promptly stripped of the privilege of practicing medicine in his or her respective state.
Ah, yes, and theres the rub: medical professionals are licensed by the state, and are bound to certain ethical precepts as defined by the state. If they act in a manner contrary to these ethical precepts, then they are no longer allowed to practice medicine.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
[div class=excerpt]It may well be the reality that the SCA and organizations of a similar aim object purely to the idea of the supernatural (in which case they would have to expel the agnostics in their ranks who permit the possibility of such a thing) and intend to nudge religion out of the public sphere for that reason alone. But based on the issues that appear meaningful to the SCA and the side they fall out on, it seems theres rather a political agenda tied up in their secularism, and its a decidedly leftist one.
While it may be appealing to push back hard against the religious right in order to make de facto political gains in a leftist agenda, doing so ham-fistedly deprives the religious left and the secular left of a well-deserved coalition through which to achieve, of all things, the betterment of humanity. It may be quite a task for organizations like the SCA to warm up to the idea of the religious left, but it also may be a wise strategy toward furthering left goals.
Yes, thats right. The lefts inability to enact major change over the past thirty years or so is because those damned secularists wont reach out and ally themselves the poor, oft-neglected religious liberals.
Religious liberals like 99% of federally-elected Democrats.
Most atheists are Democrats. From statistical analysis of voting patterns alone, that means atheist Democrats are and have been routinely voting for religious liberals. It sounds to me like the authors idea of an alliance is one in which religious liberals continue to do what theyve been doing for the past three decades while the non-believers keep their fucking traps shut.
What the author doesnt understand and what many religious liberals dont seem to understand is that the method by which one arrives at a conclusion is just as important as the conclusion itself. Yes, there are a few positions with which I find myself in line with the Roman Catholic Church (income equality, abolition of the death penalty, etc.), but they cant reasonably justify these positions to the wider public. Because Jesus wants us to isnt a good reason to enact policy, regardless of whether or not I agree with it.
And, if you oppose the theocratic inklings of the religious right, doing so makes you a goddamned hypocrite. Why should you have the right to invoke your religion to justify legislation, and not the homophobic holy roller representing Oklahoma?
It seems to me the sane thing to do is to keep religion out of the political discourse.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,306 posts)https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s1204 (21 R)
Does that look like including, in a scorecard, a bill about carving out legal exceptions for corporations that claim religion should be characterised as 'condemning the religious left'? Does Stoker claim that the religious left in Congress consists of 4 Democrats in the House?
The 4 Democrats were:
Dan Lipinski "Like his father, Lipinski is a moderate-to-conservative Democrat by Chicago-area standards; his district has historically been the most conservative of the eight that divide Chicago (especially on social issues).[2] Lipinski did not endorse President Barack Obama for reelection in 2012"
Mike McIntyre "one of the most socially conservative Democrats in Congress"
Collin Peterson "Peterson was one of the seven original founders of the Blue Dog Coalition of moderate Democrats in the House. Peterson is considered to be the most moderate Democrat in the Minnesota delegation. In the 109th Congress, he rated 50% conservative by a conservative group[17] and 57% progressive by a liberal group.[18] He is generally conservative on social issues; he strongly opposes abortion and has been one of the few Democrats to vote against even embryonic stem cell research and the vast majority of gun control measures. He has voted to ban physician assisted suicide and also to approve the flag desecration amendment. Peterson also supports the federal marriage amendment and the death penalty. His socially conservative views are not surprising given the makeup of his district. The 7th contains some of the most conservative counties in the state. "
Nick Rahall Some of his social policy votes look conservative, some look liberal.
All in all, you can't call those 4 'the religious left'.