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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 08:26 AM Apr 2014

Liberals are overlooking a major political ally: Yes, there’s a religious left!

It's one thing to attack the religious right -- but another to condemn the religious. A vital warning for liberals

ELIZABETH STOKER


An umbrella group of expressly non-religious organizations, such as the recently CPAC-banned American Atheists, released a report card for Congress last week, grading senators and representatives on their record of keeping church and state separate. Predictably, the group, called the Secular Coalition for America, did not rate America’s legislators high, with over half netting F’s. The breakdown of the lucky few who managed to score A’s was telling: All were Democrats.

If the SCA hadn’t released the rubric it used – that is, its analysis of specific pieces of legislation – most would still likely accept the outcome of its scoring, as we’re used to warily monitoring the machinations of the so-called religious right. But the SCA did release its rubric, and therefore its logic is open to inquiry, and it’s not nearly so sound or clear-cut as the simple metric of a report card might suggest.

One of the bills a legislator would need to sponsor in order to score a 100 percent, for instance, was a resolution to create a national “Darwin Day” celebrating Charles Darwin and “the importance of science in the betterment of humanity.” Another was the “Health Care Conscience Rights Act,” which would amend the existing “Public Health Service Act” to protect the right to conscientious abstention to healthcare providers who, for moral reasons, object to performing abortion or similar medical procedures. At first glance, both of these seem like fairly reasonable items to include on the SCA’s report card; after all, both have to do with particular worldviews and moral schemas. On second glance, however, it becomes unclear what either piece of legislation has to do with the stated purpose of the SCA report card: that is, to monitor the tendency of politicians to blur distinctions between church and state.

A healthy respect for Charles Darwin isn’t exclusive to atheists, for example. A number of Christian churches – including the Roman Catholic, United Methodist and the Church of England – have shown a great deal of amenability to the theory of evolution, and are never the institutions to object to its teaching. As for the role of scientific inquiry in the “betterment of humanity,” it’s absurd and insulting to imagine only non-religious people to be interested in the improvement of human life through scientific progress.

more
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/04/liberals_are_overlooking_a_major_political_ally_yes_theres_a_religious_left/
14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Liberals are overlooking a major political ally: Yes, there’s a religious left! (Original Post) DonViejo Apr 2014 OP
AGREED! doxydad Apr 2014 #1
Welcome to DU! rug Apr 2014 #3
I agree. hrmjustin Apr 2014 #7
When they conflict... trotsky Apr 2014 #10
Democracy and slavery can go hand in hand skepticscott Apr 2014 #13
How dare atheists score legislators... uriel1972 Apr 2014 #2
I agree that supporting 'Darwin Day' shouldn't be necessary; but "similar medical procedures" muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #4
It's a really poorly written article and a bit illogical el_bryanto Apr 2014 #5
Just another smear attack on atheists to shame and silence them. trotsky Apr 2014 #6
Ah, the standard atheist whinge by Trotsky Fortinbras Armstrong Apr 2014 #11
Thank you for behaving your typical Christian way. trotsky Apr 2014 #12
What's that smell? Oh. Another Salon article. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2014 #8
... trotsky Apr 2014 #9
Details on the sponsors of the 'conscience rights' bill - 211 Republicans, 4 Democrats muriel_volestrangler Apr 2014 #14

uriel1972

(4,261 posts)
2. How dare atheists score legislators...
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 08:48 AM
Apr 2014

as to how atheist friendly they are. Bad atheists, Bad, Bad.

On a second note, since when were majority of liberals, atheists?

muriel_volestrangler

(101,306 posts)
4. I agree that supporting 'Darwin Day' shouldn't be necessary; but "similar medical procedures"
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 09:14 AM
Apr 2014

means contraception, as in the Hobby Lobby case.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no provision of this title (and no amendment made by this title) shall—
...
(2)

require a sponsor (or, in the case of health insurance coverage offered to students through an institution of higher education, the institution of higher education offering such coverage) to sponsor, purchase, or provide any health benefits coverage or group health plan that includes coverage of an abortion or other item or service to which such sponsor or institution, respectively, has a moral or religious objection, or prevent an issuer from offering or issuing to such sponsor or institution, respectively, health insurance coverage that excludes such item or service;
(3)

require an issuer of health insurance coverage or the sponsor of a group health plan to include, in any such coverage or plan, coverage of an abortion or other item or service to which such issuer or sponsor has a moral or religious objection; or


https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s1204/text

That's a law to support Hobby Lobby's crap. Anyone sponsoring that bill (which is the metric for that one) should be downgraded. It's saying companies can have moral and religious objections to things which should allow them to disadvantage their employees. It's a blatant example of church-state interference.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
5. It's a really poorly written article and a bit illogical
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 09:30 AM
Apr 2014

I agree with the sentiment that the religious left and the atheist left probably agree more than they disagree, but this particularly criticism of the score card method is not very well done.

Most scorecards by any organization always seem at least somewhat arbitrary.

Bryant

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
6. Just another smear attack on atheists to shame and silence them.
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 09:48 AM
Apr 2014

In 2002, every single US senator - Democrat and Republican - voted to pass a resolution affirming the use of "under god" in the Pledge of Allegiance. They later appeared on the US Capitol steps to reinforce the second-class status of atheists in America. Hooray!

So let's chide a secular group (which obviously means the same thing as atheist group, right?) scoring legislators on their church-state separation support.

Oh and then let's make the outlandish related claim that somehow the left is all about attacking religion. How many Democratic senators joined in the pledge defense? Oh yeah, ALL OF THEM.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
12. Thank you for behaving your typical Christian way.
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 01:36 PM
Apr 2014

You confirm everything bad about your religion, FA. Jesus must be so proud of your hatred.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
8. What's that smell? Oh. Another Salon article.
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 10:04 AM
Apr 2014

[div class=”excerpt”]A healthy respect for Charles Darwin isn’t exclusive to atheists, for example. A number of Christian churches – including the Roman Catholic, United Methodist and the Church of England – have shown a great deal of amenability to the theory of evolution, and are never the institutions to object to its teaching. As for the role of scientific inquiry in the “betterment of humanity,” it’s absurd and insulting to imagine only non-religious people to be interested in the improvement of human life through scientific progress.

Who the fuck claimed “a healthy respect for Charles Darwin” is exclusive to atheists? Anyone? No, I didn’t think so.

Despite the author’s misgivings, the Darwin Day bill is an appropriate metric to measure secularity. The bill itself is benign; a mere official recognition of Darwin’s impact on modern science. It wasn’t proposed to make it a national fucking holiday; kids weren’t going to get the day off school, and Macy’s sure as shit wasn’t about to throw a Darwin-day parade. It would have been Arbor Day for Charles Darwin. Not costing anyone anything but political capital, there is virtually no reason to oppose the bill unless one 1) doesn’t “believe” in evolution (in which case one is allowing their own religious beliefs to cloud their objectivity), or 2) doesn’t want to alienate voters in their state or district (in which case one is allowing the religious beliefs of the majority to cloud their objectivity).

[div class=”excerpt”]It’s even more bizarre to try to work out exactly what that would have to do with the separation of church and state, unless it would be necessary for the SCA that a legislator vote in favor of literally everything that did not compromise the separation of church and state in order to score a 100 percent, rather than simply refusing to vote for things that would compromise that separation. Under a metric that silly, a legislator could refuse to sponsor “National Everyone Is Now a Christian Day” and also refuse to sponsor “National Bert and Ernie Day” and still fail to score an A merely because Bert and Ernie don’t compromise the separation of church and state and thus, like Charles Darwin, necessarily belong in the orbit of legislation by some strange metric.

It is awfully funny that the Secular Coalition of America would be measuring secularity. What on earth are they thinking?

Talk about insulting. This clown is essentially suggesting non-believers would look at the SCA’s report cards and vote accordingly, without consideration given to the candidates’ positions on issues other than secularism.

The UFCW doesn’t rate politicians based on gun policy. The NAACP doesn’t rate politicians based on their positions on net neutrality. The NEA doesn’t rate politicians based on their stances on renewable energy. Special interest groups rate politicians in relation to their particular special interest. Funny how that works.

[div class=”excerpt”]The same story applies to the bill that would protect rights of conscience. First, a person can conscientiously object to a practice without any involvement in religion whatsoever. Second, the act would signal the government’s refusal to act upon individuals who, for reasons of conscience, did not want to perform a particular service. In that sense it’s a clear-cut push for neutrality: Abortion and other objectionable procedures will remain legal, it’s just that people who disagree with them will be able to abjure without consequence. This is a retreat of religion from the public sphere into the private, not an example of the state confirming a particular set of necessarily religious beliefs by enacting the beliefs themselves.

This is an issue of medical ethics; simply put, whether or not a physician should be allowed to cause a patient harm because of his or her religious beliefs. Few would argue a Jehova’s Witness would be justified in denying a patient access to a blood transfusion based on his or her asinine reading of religious scripture, and if such a thing were to happen, the doctor in question would likely find himself or herself promptly stripped of the privilege of practicing medicine in his or her respective state.

Ah, yes, and there’s the rub: medical professionals are licensed by the state, and are bound to certain ethical precepts as defined by the state. If they act in a manner contrary to these ethical precepts, then they are no longer allowed to practice medicine.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

[div class=”excerpt”]It may well be the reality that the SCA and organizations of a similar aim object purely to the idea of the supernatural (in which case they would have to expel the agnostics in their ranks who permit the possibility of such a thing) and intend to nudge religion out of the public sphere for that reason alone. But based on the issues that appear meaningful to the SCA and the side they fall out on, it seems there’s rather a political agenda tied up in their secularism, and it’s a decidedly leftist one.

While it may be appealing to push back hard against the religious right in order to make de facto political gains in a leftist agenda, doing so ham-fistedly deprives the religious left and the secular left of a well-deserved coalition through which to achieve, of all things, the betterment of humanity. It may be quite a task for organizations like the SCA to warm up to the idea of the religious left, but it also may be a wise strategy toward furthering left goals.


Yes, that’s right. The left’s inability to enact major change over the past thirty years or so is because those damned secularists won’t reach out and ally themselves the poor, oft-neglected religious liberals.

Religious liberals like 99% of federally-elected Democrats.

Most atheists are Democrats. From statistical analysis of voting patterns alone, that means atheist Democrats are – and have been – routinely voting for religious liberals. It sounds to me like the author’s idea of an “alliance” is one in which religious liberals continue to do what they’ve been doing for the past three decades while the non-believers keep their fucking traps shut.
What the author doesn’t understand – and what many religious liberals don’t seem to understand – is that the method by which one arrives at a conclusion is just as important as the conclusion itself. Yes, there are a few positions with which I find myself in line with the Roman Catholic Church (income equality, abolition of the death penalty, etc.), but they can’t reasonably justify these positions to the wider public. “Because Jesus wants us to” isn’t a good reason to enact policy, regardless of whether or not I agree with it.

And, if you oppose the theocratic inklings of the religious right, doing so makes you a goddamned hypocrite. Why should you have the right to invoke your religion to justify legislation, and not the homophobic holy roller representing Oklahoma?

It seems to me the sane thing to do is to keep religion out of the political discourse.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,306 posts)
14. Details on the sponsors of the 'conscience rights' bill - 211 Republicans, 4 Democrats
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 03:47 PM
Apr 2014
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr940 (190 R, 4 D)
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s1204 (21 R)

Does that look like including, in a scorecard, a bill about carving out legal exceptions for corporations that claim religion should be characterised as 'condemning the religious left'? Does Stoker claim that the religious left in Congress consists of 4 Democrats in the House?

The 4 Democrats were:

Dan Lipinski "Like his father, Lipinski is a moderate-to-conservative Democrat by Chicago-area standards; his district has historically been the most conservative of the eight that divide Chicago (especially on social issues).[2] Lipinski did not endorse President Barack Obama for reelection in 2012"
Mike McIntyre "one of the most socially conservative Democrats in Congress"
Collin Peterson "Peterson was one of the seven original founders of the Blue Dog Coalition of moderate Democrats in the House. Peterson is considered to be the most moderate Democrat in the Minnesota delegation. In the 109th Congress, he rated 50% conservative by a conservative group[17] and 57% progressive by a liberal group.[18] He is generally conservative on social issues; he strongly opposes abortion and has been one of the few Democrats to vote against even embryonic stem cell research and the vast majority of gun control measures. He has voted to ban physician assisted suicide and also to approve the flag desecration amendment. Peterson also supports the federal marriage amendment and the death penalty. His socially conservative views are not surprising given the makeup of his district. The 7th contains some of the most conservative counties in the state. "
Nick Rahall Some of his social policy votes look conservative, some look liberal.

All in all, you can't call those 4 'the religious left'.
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