Cardinal defending Hobby Lobby tells female reporter: Women can get birth control at 7-11

[cleanhippie]

Cardinal Timothy Dolan says that Christian businesses like Hobby Lobby should not be forced to obey government rules that require all health care insurance plans provide access to contraceptives because women can already buy birth control at 7-11.

In a interview that aired Sunday on CBS, host Norah O’Donnell asked Dolan where he stood on the Hobby Lobby Supreme Court case.

“I would be inspired by the Hobby Lobby [owners],” Dolan said. “I think they’re just true Americans. They’re saying, look, the genius of America is that religious convictions affect the way we act… They sure have my admiration.”

“But doesn’t that set a dangerous precedent?” O’Donnell wondered. “If a private company can use religion to deny benefits to its employees?”

Dolan acknowledged that it could be dangerous in extreme circumstances, but he doubted that the Hobby Lobby argument was a detriment to the common good.

“Is the ability to buy contraceptives, that are now widely available — my Lord, all you have to do is walk into a 7-11 or any shop on any street in America and have access to them — is that right to access those and have them paid for, is that such a towering good that it would suffocate the rights of conscience?”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/20/cardinal-defending-hobby-lobby-tells-female-reporter-women-can-get-birth-control-at-7-11/

[rug]

1. He can buy rosaries at the Dollar Store. It's a stupid argument.

[Ilsa]

2. He doesn't understand that it isn't HL's money.

Those healthcare dollars are earned benefits that the company has no right in saying how they are spent.

[Bluenorthwest]

3. I just left a thread full of folks saying Catholic clerics only speak of love and never say ugly

things, I don't understand how they can say that when every day some leading cleric says something like this, when Uganda's bishops celebrate the anti gay laws....'it's the Baptists that are bad, Catholic homilies are never about abortion or gays!!!!' Wake up, people. Dolan speaks for you, in a hierarchy, he is your superior, a Prince while you are a penitent.

[yeoman6987]

4. I don't understand why everyone just wait to see what the Supreme Court has to say

The last Affordable Care Act Supreme Court ruling was to keep it. The Supreme Court seems very positive on ACA so why don't we just wait and see what happens.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. The last ruling gutted the medicaid requirement.

Gutting is what this court is all about.

[yeoman6987]

6. But had they not accepted the mandatory part of it

The entire thing would have been destroyed. The Supreme Court at least kept it breathing.

[edhopper]

11. I am sure the

Million and a half people who have been denied coverage because of the medicare ruling are grateful. Let's see what the good Catholic Kennedy votes for.

[yeoman6987]

13. I actually wonder where the 20 million are that still have not signed up

When ACA first began there was about 29 million Americans uninsured. What the heck are they?????

[edhopper]

15. Some will be covered by their parents

(now up to age 26) some will get it from their employers next year. Some will pay the tax penalty. It will take some time for it all to work through.

[rug]

7. I'd like to see a link to that thread.

[AtheistCrusader]

26. Wish Granted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=123388

(Via Heddi, downthread)

[Dawson Leery]

8. Dolan speaks of babylonian nonsense.

Next, Hobby Lobby will require their employees to be evangelical.

[Goblinmonger]

9. Sounds almost exactly like a post here in another thread

But that was a progressive DU member. Go figure.

[rug]

10. All of these sub rosa references. I don't believe you. Link to the post.

[Heddi]

21. Here you go

[Heddi]

29. what, no comment about one of our own members here making the same 'buy your rubbers

at the 7/11" backwards nonsense offensive tone-deaf statement as the Cardinal makes? Why is that? The proof is there in much more than black and white. It's full colour, even!

[rug]

30. He can comment on his own post.

What is it, Heddi, you in a mood to discuss DUers tonight?

[Heddi]

31. You're the one that asked for proof that it happened, and implied that those who brought it up

were (at best) exaggerating about it or (at worst) lying about it happening

I'm not in a mood to discuss DU'ers. I'm in a mood to discuss tone-deaf arguments that equate Birth Control = Condoms, and that "go buy it at 7/11" is an acceptable retort to women who find themselves unable to get birth control (not condoms) covered through their health insurance because of their employer's religious beliefs that force all employees to follow the employer's religious beliefs and are completely disrespectful of the employer's beliefs and medical needs.

Isn't that an important thing to talk about?

[rug]

32. If that were true you would not so giddily ask for comment about "one of our own members here".

In "full colour, (sic) even!" Let alone kick a five day old thread to do so.

I'll gladly discuss substance without these chronic ad hominems that are really about another, vastly uninteresting, subject.

[Heddi]

33. Well I hardly kicked it, considering there were 5 posts between 4-6pm today

And I think it's important to combat the ignorance that associates all contraceptives with condoms, and that it is "reasonable accomodation" for a woman to buy her "rubbers" at a grocery or convenience store rather than being able to get "hormonal contraceptives" (which are not the same as condoms, and serve a completely different purpose) at the pharmacy of her choosing when her MD prescribes them for her.

It's ignorant because it's like telling someone with heart disease that they shouldn't worry about getting prescription heart medicine from the pharmacy because they can just buy aspirin at 7/11.

People who believe that it condoms are the same as hormonal birth control, and who see nothing wrong with an employer denying an employee the right to have medically-necessary medication covered by their insurance plan because of the employer's religious beliefs, and who don't see anything wrong with the argument "get it from the 7/11" need to be educated that 1) hormonal contraceptives are used and prescribed for a variety of reasons beyond as a means of controlling reproduction and 2) condoms are not hormonal birth control and can not serve the same purpose as hormonal birth control and 3) people should not be denied medically necessary medication, treatment, and therapies that have been prescribed and authorized as necessary by an MD because of the religious beliefs of an employer.

You don't seem to think this is an important argument to make, or an important distinction to make.

What aspects of your health care would you like to have relegated to receiving at a 7/11 ? Or is it only others who have to be forced into using rubbers from 7/11 instead of prescribed medications?

[rug]

34. DU is hardly the place "to combat the ignorance that associates all contraceptives with condoms".

Any proponent of that argument here is few and far between. You know that. Attacking members here as if they were scouts for FR or the USCCB is counterproductive, disruptive and divisive. You know that too.

I wrote what I thought of Dolan's remark five days ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=124951

Your argument is well-stated. It's also oft-stated all over DU. Your enemies are not here.

[Heddi]

35. Well

Anyone who thinks 7/11 is an acceptable substitution for a pharmacy, or that rubbers are a substitute for hormonal contraceptives, and who holds this belief despite numerous people educating them to the errors of their ways is, in fact, my enemy. I don't give a shit if they vote d, r, or other. Anyone who thinks it's okay for millions of women to get healthcare at 7/11 is no friend of progressives, liberals, democrats, or women.

[rug]

38. If you think that, keep posting attacks on DU members. See what that accomplishes.

[LostOne4Ever]

12. Ugggghhhhh

Contraception covers more than just rubbers and its purpose is for more than just preventing pregnancy. They are used for hormonal imbalances and uterine diseases and can cost hundreds of dollars not counting the doctor visit to get the script in the first place!

Further, your faith does not give you an excuse to discriminate against people or deny them basic rights and privileges.

These people just refuse to understand that. Willfull ignorance.

[LeftishBrit]

14. Unless the USA is very different from the UK...

you could buy condoms without needing to go to a pharmacy, You could not get the contraceptive pill at an ordinary store. And this may be essential if the woman is not to depend on her partner's level of responsibility in the matter; if it is absolutely vital not to become pregnant (using both the Pill and a condom may be desirable in such a case); or if the woman needs to take it for medical reasons; it is not only used as a contraceptive.

[Humanist_Activist]

17. Dolan is straight up lying with what he says. But lying is a lesser sin than slandering political...

opponents.

Even though certain types of birth control are available over the counter, you still have to go to a place with a pharmacy in it, such as groceries, department stores, and actual pharmacies. Not 7-11s or convenience stores, which only carry extremely common over the counter medication, like Tylenol.

[AtheistCrusader]

24. You can get Plan-B at the local Fred Meyer, on the shelf next to the condoms.

Which is where it belongs, since it is a contraceptive, not an abortifacient.


The pill is still prescription-only though. For a variety of reasons that seem reasonable to me, and we require pharmacists to dispense it state-wide now, so access is much more universal. Planned Parenthood does a REALLY good job of distributing access to the pill as well, so I keep them in my yearly charitable donations.

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. Funny, one of our progressive brethren made the same exact argument just last week.

"If you want birth control, you can just buy a pack of rubbers, just like everyone else."

Theocracy is only bad when conservatives do it, apparently.

[Humanist_Activist]

18. "Thou shall not bear false witness..." I wonder if Dolan will bother going to confession for this.

I doubt it, the Church is lead by hypocrisy, after all.

[Jackpine Radical]

27. Lies in the service of the Lord

are not sins.

In fact, they can be applied as credits against your Purgatory time.

[Gothmog]

19. Rachel did a good job debunking this crap last night

Rachel debunk this lie http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/22/rachel-maddow-hobby-lobby-birth-control_n_5190842.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics

Rachel Maddow had a blast debunking some of the myths surrounding top news stories during her show Monday night.

She began with the Hobby Lobby Supreme Court case, where the Christian-owned crafts supply chain is fighting a provision of the Affordable Care Act which requires most employers to cover contraception in their health plans. Hobby Lobby owners are against emergency contraception and IUDs, seeing them as forms of abortion, and argue that the law is a violation of the company's religious freedom.

Maddow's beef was with New York Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who recently said in an interview on CBS' 'Face The Nation' that he supports Hobby Lobby because of how "widely available" contraception is today. Cardinal Dolan said that you can simply "walk into a 7-Eleven or any shop on any street in America" and access birth control.

It took Maddow all of about 30 seconds to prove the Cardinal so, incredibly wrong.

[Heddi]

20. We had a DU Religion Forum Regular say just that same thing last week

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=123388



And the only people who called him out on that were the Atheists.....

[cleanhippie]

22. You act surprised, as if you didn't know ther was a double-standard here.

tsk, tsk, tsk, Heddi.

Besides, the family of the Arbiter Of All Things is immune from any of that.

[trotsky]

23. Ugh, that's terrible.

What kind of liberal would say such a thing?

[AtheistCrusader]

25. hahah I remember that post.

Bunch of us waded into him or her for it, too.

It was a pretty vile thing to say.

[Warpy]

28. And another godly jackass opens his mouth

and demonstrates how his pampered lifestyle has disconnected him completely from reality.

Why the hell is anybody listening to him any more?

[nil desperandum]

36. Cardinal Dolan

That's the million dollar question certainly. I would be interested in finding out how many of the 7 million catholics in New York agree with the good cardinal's sentiments. It is interesting to see the pick and choose nature of religious folks in the US. Keep the parts you like and ignore the stuff you don't seems to be the modus operandi for many. I always thought it was more of an all or nothing proposition and I was unaware that there were parts that could be routinely ignored.f

[Warpy]

37. "Pick and choose" can be a good thing

Catholic women are living longer because they realize some sexless old fart in a dress doesn't have a clue about sex, reproduction, or the miserable lives of women under true believer Catholicism.

They picked the pill and chose to live longer and better lives with children they could afford to feed.

[nil desperandum]

39. Agreed

I agree with your point, I wasn't clear on whether or not the church would agree with that....

[Warpy]

40. No, the church pitches a fit

and most women don't mention it in the confessional. They just wisely think it's none of the church's business and they're correct.