What the hell do Atheists need with special Atheist holidays?

[rug]

by Robyn Pennacchia • Apr 22, 2014

I’m an atheist. For all intents and purposes, I have been an atheist for my whole life. I’ve never been to church, and–despite having tried as a mental exercise–cannot actually fathom what it would be like to think there was some bearded dude up there clocking my every move in order to discern whether or not I ought to burn in hell for all eternity. That seems awkward, although I would imagine that people who grew up believing that would have just as hard a time imagining him not being there.

Although I am decidedly dispassionate about what I believe in as far as that goes–and I certainly don’t care if anyone else goes along with me–I have an extreme aversion to organized religion, and organized groups of people in general. I hate clubs, I hate themes, I was a pathological floater in high school and remain so to this day. I dislike being told what to do so much that there is a part of me that desperately wants to write every email in brightly colored Comic Sans.

I feel like I need a new title, however, for my belief system, because Atheism is becoming a little too close to an organized religion. There are atheist churches, people handing out atheist pamphlets and evangelizing against belief, people running for office and wearing spaghetti strainers on their heads, and, lately, special atheist holidays.

Earlier today, Lincoln Chaffee, the Governor of Rhode Island, declared May 1st the state’s Official Day of Reason–coinciding with the state’s official Day of Prayer.

“The application of reason, more than any other means, has proven to offer hope for human survival upon Earth by cultivating intelligent, moral and ethical interactions among people and their environments. It is the duty and responsibility of every citizen to promote the development and application of reason.”

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/219390/what-the-hell-do-atheists-need-with-special-atheist-holidays/

[ret5hd]

1. What? Are you afraid we might get an extra day off or something?

[cbayer]

3. That's not even close to her point.

[struggle4progress]

35. Hey! If you want a National Stay Home and Study Math Day, I'll support it!

[stone space]

49. Stay Home and Study Math Day?

Now, there's a holiday I can wholeheartedly support!

[cbayer]

2. While I agre in large part with just about everything she says here, I disagree with

there not needing to be a day that recognizes atheism.

As long as particular religious groups have days of recognition designated, then an atheist day makes sense in the quest to "normalize" atheism.

OTOH, I fully agree with here that "Day of Reason" is a really bad choice. It is insulting to believers and, as she puts it, "smarmy".

[DreamGypsy]

5. Well, the OP is definitely and deliberately a rant...

...but I perceive the real message to be (emphasis mine):

The Day of Reasoning declaration came in response to requests by the Humanists of Rhode Island and the Secular Coalition for Rhode Island, hoping for non-believers to be recognized along with people who participate in the Day of Prayer. My personal preference would be to have neither.

This is not to criticize Chaffee for doing this. In fact, I will gladly raise a glass of coffee milk to him for doing so. A governor should strive to represent all people. My issue is more with Atheists who are looking to be treated as an organized religion or to make religious people feel less than.

<snip>

It is not the government’s job to validate my beliefs, or anyone else’s. Who needs that? What kind of person needs a stamp of approval on their belief system?

Wouldn’t it be nice if we could all just go about our business, go to church, not go to church, believe in god, not believe in god, without the government being involved in any way whatsoever? What do they need to be there for? God, not-God, whatever, has exactly zero place in the public sphere. We can’t complain about religious people wanting to insert religion into state affairs if we try to do the same thing.

I agree thoroughly with the remarks that I highlighted
... and the tone of her message was at least entertaining.

[cbayer]

7. I also enjoyed her tone and I understand her POV on this.

But I doubt that we can eliminate all those special days that are designated by one part of the government or another, so I would still support being as inclusive as possible.

[LiberalAndProud]

11. I invite believers to observe the Day of Reason right along with me.

Why should believers think that the observance is intended to exclude them? In fact, it's far less exclusionary than Day of Prayer.

[cbayer]

12. What exactly will you be doing to observe this day?

And how would it be less "adversarial" than the day of prayer?

[LiberalAndProud]

13. I edited before I read your post, so there is that.

On more thought, I meant exclusionary and edited to say so.

I will be reflecting on the many benefits reliance on reason has brought to our modern society. I will contemplate how advancing reason might be of further benefit to us. I won't be praying, but if you wish to do so prayerfully, please do.

[cbayer]

14. That sounds like a good thing to do and one that both believers and non-believers could

participate in.

But how would that be different than the already designated days for scientifically based groups?

What do you think about the author's objections to using the word reason? FWIW, I think she makes a really good argument for why that is a bad choice of words, but I am not able to come up with what would be a better alternative.

[LiberalAndProud]

15. I disagree with the author's objections for the reasons that are already obvious.

It is not my opinion that all believers are unreasonable. In fact, I will go so far as to say all believers are reasonable in at least some arenas of thought. But there is no other word that should replace Reason.

I don't believe in the efficacy of prayer. A believer does. However, we can both can acknowledge the efficacy of reason. If a Christian believes that Day of Reason excludes them, more's the pity.

[cbayer]

16. I don't see any objection based on exclusivity, though there may be some.

I read her objections as against organized atheism in general, against having these kinds of days for anything and the word "Reason".

A case can be made (as she does) that "Reason" implies that that those that pray are "unreasonable", as the two days will apparently coincide. It might have been better placed on a different day with some recognition that one can be both religious and secular.

[LiberalAndProud]

17. A case can be made, and I do, that National Day of Prayer excludes nonbelievers.

By juxtaposing the Day of Reason with the Day of Prayer, we are all included. Religious believers have their day. Why cannot a more inclusive concept be observed on the same day? Because believers might take it badly? Let me apologize now to all who may have their feelings hurt by the observance of reason.

[cbayer]

18. Actually, I have voiced support for it as long as there are days in place that

recognize believers.

I'm ambivalent about it being on the same day as the day of prayer though.

On the one hand, I think that may provide an opportunity to create something that is very inclusive and includes those of many faiths as well as non-believers. That would be great.

On the other, though, I still find the "reason" label problematic if it is being offered as an alternative to religion, as opposed to something distinct and more inclusive.

Why do you keep taking the position that some religious people are all bent out of shape about this? Have you seen something to support that?

[LiberalAndProud]

19. Reason is not exclusive to atheists. Once we acknowledge that, that is about as inclusive as it gets

The Day of Reason is exclusionary only to the extent that the faithful find their faith to be unreasonable. And I realize that there are people of faith who do, at least in some sense.

Prayer can result in good things internal to the pray-er. I am not opposed to it on principle. I am opposed to our Federal or State Government taking a stand in favor of faith or prayer. That intrinsically places the minority of unbelievers in the status of secondary and less than. That cannot be, reasonably, a good thing.

I'll take back the Day of Reason in exchange for the Day of Prayer, if people of faith find reason to be offensive to their faith.

[cbayer]

20. I understand your point about it being inclusive and agree.

I am also opposed to the state taking a position on prayer and opposed to them endorsing particular days for religion.

Again, I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that there is offense being taken. Is that just a presumption on your part?

[LiberalAndProud]

21. We shouldn't have it on the same day because ...

why, if not fear of offense taken?

We should find another word than "reason" because ...

why, if not fear of offense taken?

Neither of these objections are valid except for fear of offense, as far as I can tell.

[cbayer]

22. I think you may just be looking for something for us to disagree about.

If you are saying that I am the one offended, you are incorrect.

My objection to the use of the word reason was only if it were being used to indicate that another POV might represent "unreason", similar to the author's objection.

And I can see and have voiced positive reasons for having it on the same day.

None of this is based on fear of offense.

I ask for the final time whether this is an assumption or whether you have seen something that indicates that people are offended by this?

Perhaps you are becoming defensive when there is no need to?

[LiberalAndProud]

23. I really was not thinking of you, or the offense you may or may not take.

In fact, as I was writing, I also kept in mind that you have taken pains to describe your neutral position on matters of faith. I was speaking to the objections and reservations that you voiced. Nowhere did I say that reason is or should be offensive to anyone. I always spoke to the possibility that it might be. Always the if.

[cbayer]

24. Thanks for the explanation.

I really look forward to the "normalization" of non-belief and I think we are on our way.

It's been a rough road at times and I try to remind myself frequently that non-believers experience some very significant prejudice and outright bigotry in some areas.

You may be correct that there will be objections to this governor's actions, but I hope that there will not be.

[struggle4progress]

36. You should read Euclid! and Diophantos! and Archimedes! and Fibonacci! and Newton! and Euler!

and Lobachevsky! and Gauss! and Galois! and Dirichlet! and Dedekind! and Cantor! and Hilbert! and many others!

Put a blackboard in your boat, buy some chalk, and learn more geometry and algebra! Make models of nonconvex polyhedra as Christmas and birthday presents! Program your computer to test various algorithms to factor large numbers!

The possibilities are endless!

[cbayer]

37. Aggghhhh!

Just reading your post made my head hurt.

[struggle4progress]

38. I think you could at least decorate your sextant with foil icicles and glass balls and surround it

with gift-wrapped books on spherical trigonometry and navigation for the holiday: it won't occur more than once a year

[cbayer]

39. I might spend the day just being particularly unreasonable.

I've got it down to the point where it is almost perfect. Just ask my husband.

[struggle4progress]

41. "... all progress depends on the unreasonable ..."

George Bernard Shaw
Man and Superman

[cbayer]

42. I looked that up because I wanted to see it in context,

and I like the full quote even better.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

[GOPee]

27. Live and let live, and enjoy what we enjoy thinking and doing

.. and let others do the same, life is much too short. But that is just me..

[cbayer]

29. Welcome to the Religion group, GOPee.

I tend to agree with you. Unless someone is infringing on the rights of others, what they believe is not for me to judge.

[GOPee]

31. Thank you so much, I'm happy to finally jump in and get wet.

I read this forum several times a day and mostly agree or at least enjoy the back and forth.

[cbayer]

32. There is a wide range of opinion here as well as a wide range of

debating/discussing "styles".

Hope you enjoy yourself.

[GOPee]

33. I've witnessed the debating, and fall somewhere in the squishy middle. Ha!

My religious beliefs are what I call "Customized". Raised Catholic, and divorced, both husband and the church.

[cbayer]

34. Honestly I think most people's religious beliefs are customized,

and that's just fine by me.

[The_Commonist]

4. I think this person sort of answers her own question:

"I hate clubs, I hate themes, I was a pathological floater in high school and remain so to this day."

Yeah, well not everyone is like you, lady. Some people ENJOY getting together with other, you know, human beings.

My favorite, and personal working definition of "religion" is "a group of people who share the same view of how the universe functions gathering together in congregation to discuss and/or celebrate their shared view of how the universe functions."

Maybe people (like me?) who don't subscribe to the Judeo/Christian/Islamic or Hindu or Buddhist or whatever view of how the universe functions enjoy "gathering together in congregation to discuss and/or celebrate their shared view of how the universe functions." Maybe we don't all hate clubs or themes, and maybe some people think that Pi Day or whatever is a lot of fun.

I get the feeling that this person just felt like bitching about something yesterday. We all have days like that.

[intaglio]

6. Why the oblivion do theists require special religious holidays???

I repeat FFS

[cbayer]

10. Ideally, it would be great to eliminate all of these government endorsements

of special religious days.

I would also be in favor of eliminating most, if not all, of the recognition of special secular days.

But until that happens, I think inclusivity is the way to go.

We are going to run out of days, then what will happen, lol?

[SevenSixtyTwo]

8. Every Sunday

Is my heathen holiday. I don't need a holiday for something I don't believe in. Hell, we still have Christmas for that.

[Mr.Bill]

51. I go to church every Sunday.

Unless there's a game on.

[LiberalAndProud]

9. I support Robyn's right to not observe the Day of Reason.

Since the National Day of Prayer has become something of a political observance, as we dutifully watch a President and other political leaders observe. The National Day of Reason has an important place in our culture.

Robyn can shut up about disorganizing the atheist presence in our society. We've had far enough of that for far long enough.

[goldent]

25. I think the day of reason would be a great holiday for the religious

and non-religious alike. Win-win!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. A 'Day of Reason' merely highlights the fact that

364 days (or 365 every leap year) we are awash in unreason.

[JNelson6563]

28. Kinda funny really.

Then again, I have a fondness for irony. Her phobia of groups guides her thinking as much as your faith does yours Rug. A thorough reading of the OT shows the goat-herders that wrote had a similar phobia for cities. They were equally nasty about them as the article's author is to groups & atheists who choose to share a fellowship with like minded souls.

Funny and a bit pathetic at the same time but that's irony for ya.

Julie

[rug]

30. You have it backwards, Julie. My thinking guides my faith.

[MellowDem]

40. The US needs it...

It's not an atheist holiday, it's a day to fight all sorts of irrational ideas and beliefs, which permeate the population and cause untold suffering.

[cbayer]

43. There is absolutely nothing in this that speaks to fighting anything.

It's about promoting something.

Maybe you should propose to the governor of your state a "Day of Fighting the Irrational".

I bet that would go over great.

[MellowDem]

44. It doesn't have to say it explicitly...

Promoting reason is fighting irrationality.

You seem upset for some reason by that idea.

[cbayer]

45. And your take is exactly why I objected to the way this day was named.

You are on a personal crusade. Although you are not the only one on it to be sure, I am very glad that the group is relatively small and marginalized for the most part.

[MellowDem]

46. Whatever you need to demonize...

to rationalize your dissonance. You're very good at that.

There's nothing wrong with fighting irrationality. You can't even put your finger down on what you find disagreeable.

[cbayer]

47. Let me tell you what's not dissonant for me at all.

If your attitude and approach towards others is representative of the kind of imaginary world we will be living in when you finally eliminate all religion, you can keep it. I don't want any part of it.

Is my finger down on that clearly enough for you?

The dissonance is entirely yours.

I really try not to do this, but you have stepped over the line way too many times. If I didn't know better, I might think you were a Poe.

Sayonara.

[MellowDem]

48. What line?

I say fighting irrationality is a good thing and I'm stepping over a line? Do you even know why you're offended? Can you not put it into words? I don't think you can because you don't have any reasoning behind it. Your posts are generally nothing but red herrings and ad hominems, you almost never address the subject at hand.

[stone space]

50. You mean as a counterpoint to PI Day?

it's a day to fight all sorts of irrational ideas and beliefs

I kind of like PI Day.

And not just because it happens to fall on my Birthday.

[longship]

53. Unless one is an advocate of Tau Day, June 28.

That's the day after my birthday.

I always celebrate Mole Day, October 23rd. I open a beer at precisely two minutes past six in the AM (local time). Then I stay home for the rest of the day and watch 1950's SciFi.

[cbayer]

54. Ha! I have two very, very special Tau day birthdays to celebrate!.

[longship]

55. Skäl! My friend.

Technically, my birthday is June 27, just like my twin sister. But as a physics major I observed that Pi is almost always multiplied by two in equations. No accident there since a full circle is 2*pi radians and many things in physics have spherical symmetry.

I am neutral on tau advocacy. It seems silly actually. But it is still fun to consider how geometry class would go without Pi.

Plus, without it one could not tell the joke...

Pi R Squared!

Nope! Pie aren't square. Pie are round.

[stone space]

52. I think that May 1 already has a name. It's called May Day. (nt)