Religion
Related: About this forumOne Reason Atheism Doesn’t Really Answer Anything
May 11, 2014
By Frank Schaeffer
Most people dont really want to live only according to narrowly defined material facts. Most of us try to direct our human primate evolutionary process along ethical non-material lines. We impose standards that do not come from nature. Nature is cruel yet we try not to be. We prosecute people for war crimes that are no more destructive than what happens every day in the churning cauldron of life where everything is eaten and where death is the only incubator of life. We call murder wrong although its the most natural thing on earth.
Weve decided to let an imagined utopian ideal, a future Eden if you will, rule our present despite this being a spiritual non-material-universe-based choice that flies in the face of natural selection. We impose ethics that exist only in our heads upon the material universe. We are part of nature yet we have decided to be nicer than nature. There would be no war crimes trials unless our ethically evolved selves questioned the method of evolution itself. There would be no tears after the death of a friend, unless we had it in us to dream beyond what by now we should be used to.
A spiritual non-material-based way of life turns out to be the actual way we live no matter what we say we believe. We live by ethics not found in nature and we enrich our lives with art. That says something to me. Maybe a purely material view of the universe and of ourselves is not in fact a fact.
We have moments when we say to ourselves, This is as good as it gets. When we use the word good it has as much intrinsic meaning to us as the words two plus two equals four. Each of us may have a variation on what prompts us to say, This is as good as it gets, but we all know what we mean by the phrase and what others mean.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2014/05/one-reason-atheism-doesnt-really-answer-anything/
edhopper
(33,164 posts)of whether there are gods.
Atheist can live lives just as fulfilled as believers, they just understand that their meaning for life comes from within.
Other than that the article is a giant steaming pile of falsehoods, unsubstantiated claims and plain bullshit.
rug
(82,333 posts)I meant to say it answers for the individual, not a definitive answer.
Of course religious belief doesn't answer any questions either.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)for me to have a god to live an ethical life.
I try to do it for the betterment of myself and other people.
No need for reward and punisent from god to motivate me.
I see most religions having their origins in the minds of men.
The Budda was a man.
longship
(40,416 posts)As are many, many articles about atheism and atheists.
Maybe that's why atheists and atheism are so despised.
rug
(82,333 posts)catbyte
(34,165 posts)GOD, ALLAH, etc. So all the religious strife, hate, and bigotry is created by US, not some divine being and the responsibility is ours.
edhopper
(33,164 posts)has answered?
What is that?
rug
(82,333 posts)Religious beliefs are all about questions and answers, even if you neither accept nor like any of the answers.
But, really, atheism doesn't even ask a question.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Belief in god has produced millions of questions, but not a single answer.
Well, I take that back. For the most ignorant among us, "god did it" is the only answer needed.
rug
(82,333 posts)I demand evidence!!!1!!1
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)I'm skeptical. Where's the proof?
intaglio
(8,170 posts)do not act like a petulant child because you believe that any response you make is insufficient.
rug
(82,333 posts)I'll return to this later.
BTW, you should check your assumptions before you make snide personal remarks.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)There is, pretty much tautologically, no question where belief in God has helped or could help arrive at a correct answer.
rug
(82,333 posts)A wrong opinion, imo.
longship
(40,416 posts)Atheism is the disbelief in gods. Nothing more; nothing less.
It says nothing about purpose, morals, or any other questions and answers. Those would be orthogonal concepts.
Atheism is not meant to answer anything except that the atheist does not believe that gods exist.
But that doesn't stop people from saying silly things about atheists. Like, they don't believe anything. Like they believe in Satan. Like they have no source for morals. Etc. Or that atheism should somehow answer everything.
So my response is: No, I cannot think of anything that atheism, in and of itself, has answered. Why would anybody expect it to? It is just like religion in that respect.
Hope you are well, rug.
enki23
(7,786 posts)The funny thing is, most all of them agree with us. About most everyone else.
Gore1FL
(21,027 posts)Who ever said it was an answer?
enki23
(7,786 posts)(That was supposed to be the reaction, right? Because it is.)
Jim__
(14,045 posts)From Amazon:
I definitely disagree with some of what he says. For instance:
Maybe. But, some aspects of the way we live may not be directly due to the requirements of evolution. Intelligence seems to be a natural by-product of evolution. But, consciousness? Maybe there is a limit on the intelligence level of non-conscious beings; and consciousness, once present may just continue to develop. And, along with consciousness, art?
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I'm not buying a book that insults my intelligence like that.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)I will try to read the rest of what seems to be the most unalloyed tripe - but I hold no regard for an author who makes so many infantile errors in his introductory paragraph.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Ok, I was going to do a takedown along those lines but that was extremely thorough, and you even came up with two objections I didn't even consider.
Damn yo. That was nice.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Argues against a point no one is making.
Don Quixote would be green with envy.
The existence of atheists and atheism seems to drive some people to say the silliest things.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)a) Weve decided to let an imagined utopian ideal, a future Eden if you will, rule our present Utterly and completely incoherent. Rationalism and skepticism (requirements for modern Western atheism) do not require governance based upon a possible ideal future but rather the inspection of what futures are possible. After that we can then attempt, or not, to acheive those that seem more beneficial or least harmful -but all the time inspecting our assumptions and the available evidence.
b) ... despite this being a spiritual non-material-universe-based choice that flies in the face of natural selection. This farago ask us to assume that atheists make "spiritual" choices and that such choices are inconsisent with confection that Mr Schaeffer's 19th Century re-imagining of natural selection.
mike_c
(36,213 posts)Actually, I'm quite happy to live a secular life in a natural universe. Seriously.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,267 posts)Nothing more. It does not claim to give any answers or has any beliefs.
If we want answers we must find them on our own. That is what makes it great!