Catholic Church forces woman to leave job after gay marriage is revealed

[trotsky]

Hey, must be one of those Catholic schools and a Catholic employee, right? Certainly within the church's legal rights to dismiss someone like that, they knew the rules.

Oh, it was a non-Catholic? Working at a food bank for the church? And did I mention she's still recovering from cancer?

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/05/14/5024092/catholic-church-forces-woman-to.html

“You don’t want your legacy to be one of division and ugliness,” she said. “It’s awful. But there are laws, and until that law gets changed in the church, it is what it is.”

...

Simon is Lutheran, but she spent decades as a Catholic. And it is through Catholicism’s strong ties to charity and justice that she’s reframed her life. She moved to Kansas City from Virginia, a step in a transition from a prior career as a pharmaceutical representative.

...

She pressed for the congregation to not only offer food, but to examine systemic reasons for why people hunger. It’s the social justice role of faith, long embraced by the Jesuit-affiliated St. Francis Xavier, often in conjunction with its cohort on the east side of Troost, Rockhurst University.

Simon is devastated. But her refusal to resign, her insistence on being fired, is not a stand on principle. It’s pragmatic. She might need unemployment benefits.

[Goblinmonger]

1. Prepare for some deflect and obfuscate

But, but, new Pope

[Rob H.]

5. That and something along the lines of

blah blah not actually homophobia blah blah sacramental marriage blah de blah blah.

[rug]

6. For a change this post was not along the lines of

blah blah pedophile blah blah unicorn blah de blah blah.

[Goblinmonger]

7. One of my all time favs is a riff on sacramental marriage

It's not the marriage, it's the sin of having sex outside of marriage.

[rug]

8. You should have paid more attention in high school seminary.

That is a correct statement.

Too bad it disrupts your narrative.

[Lordquinton]

12. It's bigoted homophobic codswollop

no matter how you try to pretty it up it's indefensible.

[rug]

14. If you had the slightest idea what you're talking about you'd know two things.

One, that's a correct statement of the doctrine.

Two, linking adjectives does not constitute an argument.

[Lordquinton]

47. It's one more adjective than you usually use

and I was making a factual statement, if you're saying that a "correct statement of the doctrine" is homophobic codswallop, then that is all on you.

Let me expand: "correct statement of the doctrine" is that sex outside of marriage is a sin, marriage is between a man and a woman, so anyone having sex outside of marriage is going to hell. You think this is just OK and not in any way homophobic? If so please explain.

[rug]

54. You couldn't tell a fact from an opinion even if one were a flashing neon sign.

[Lordquinton]

57. Do I even have to say anything here?

like really, this writes it's self.

[trotsky]

9. Oh that's a brilliant yet disgusting one.

"No, we just don't like the 'sex outside sacramental marriage' thing! It's nothing against homosexuals at all!" (Gotta put on one's most sincere innocent face when trying to sell that bigoted bullshit.)

[Rob H.]

17. Pretty convenient out, isn't it?

It ranks right up there with "Love the sinner, hate the sin" in the pantheon of bullshit excuses for homophobia.

[cleanhippie]

29. And it's being defended RIGHT HERE ON DU!

What. The. Fuck.

[rug]

32. So is antireligious bigotry.

RIGHT HERE ON DU!

[cleanhippie]

33. Pfffft.

Kept deflecting. Keep defending.

Jesus is proud.

[rug]

34. I am always stunned by the clarity of your argument.

But I expect your tired tactic and smiley below.

[cleanhippie]

37. I'm never stunned by your compulsive need to have the last word.

Go on, have it. You know you need it. Even though you've had it many times in this thread alone.

[Goblinmonger]

35. I have a few messages not showing up on this thread

so I'm sure that tired old trope is being trotted out again.

And, hey, if the Catholic church wasn't homophobic bigots and recognized gay marriage, I would be fine with the "sex outside of marriage is a sin" argument. But as it stands now, relying on that argument is just plain bigotry. That progressives advance that argument and other progressives buy it is mind numbing.

Edited to add: Since I'm sure this will get alerted--jurors please note I am saying the church is bigoted and not individual specific Catholics.

[cleanhippie]

38. It's the usual suspect spewing the usual defense and apologia.

You're not missing anything.

[skepticscott]

59. And the rest of the

religionistas being conspicuously silent. Won't do to condemn one of their own, not matter what it means defending.

[rug]

60. And you of course are unable to do so.

Enjoy your bubble.

[rug]

31. Dispute it then. Truth can be convenient or inconvenient, to steal a phrase.

[AtheistCrusader]

61. Sure.

What interest does the church have in the marriage status of its employee? None. This was purely vindictive. It bore no relation whatsoever to her job performance. (I hope she sues their asses off, if the laws of that state provide an avenue to do so)

The catholic church doesn't own the concept of marriage. It doesn't determine what is a 'real' marriage or not. AT BEST they might have an interest in claiming not to RECOGNIZE the marriage of its employee. That's it.

Herp blurf 'conscientious religious objection', the most thinly of veiled bigotries.


There doesn't even appear to be an employment contract issue here. This was outright vindictive discrimination.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. Well at least she isnt facing death for apostasy.

[AtheistCrusader]

3. We just had this fight in my local town.

Local food bank was operating out of a building owned by a local catholic church. Church decided 'no more donations from non-believers'. 90% of the food bank employees said 'fuck you' and split, and set up a new one, a secular food bank, in different facilities.

So much for 'coexist'.

[Dorian Gray]

4. That is bizarre to me

I can't imagine my church (Catholic, in a progressive area of Brooklyn) ever denying donations from non-Catholics. It's just bizarre to me. (And obviously, the food bank was VERY WRONG in making that decision, and I support the people who left and started their own food bank.)

[AtheistCrusader]

10. I know it's not a common event.

Usually food banks and the churches that sometimes operate them take all comers, and welcome all volunteers and donations.

I get the feeling personal emotions got involved somehow. It's a very local example.

[Dorian Gray]

20. It's terrible that that happened.

I'd be pissed off if I were working for the food bank, and I'd probably take it somewhere else as well. They did the right thing.

[Lordquinton]

13. This should get more publicity

To help tear down the narrative that the Catholic church does so much good. They have a reputation for doing good so people(literally) buy into it. When you separate the people doing good from the church you'll find things much different, I'd guess.

[rug]

15. "They have a reputation for doing good so people(literally) buy into it"

What an idiotic statement.

Let's see, are you trying to say they don't do good?

Are you trying to say, people are stupid and believe it's does good when it doesn't good?

Or are you just trying to document your bias?

[Htom Sirveaux]

16. Does the Catholic church have open financial records?

Is it possible to know how much the church spends on charity as a percentage of the total amount of money it takes in?

[rug]

18. Diversion.

You're equating good works with bank accounts.

You're approaching his territory.

[rexcat]

19. Just like the good...

Mother Teresa did helping the dying by not giving them pain medication because suffering was good and then the Church turned around and made her a Saint. Is that what you are referring to as good works?

[rug]

21. You're repeating a canard.

Before doing so again, post the details of this assertion, not a biased meme.

But speaking of her, do you say she did no good?

[rexcat]

22. Which brings up another topic...

the willingness of the RCC to open their banking records or for that matter Mother Teresa's records. Banking scandal, the rat lines post WWII, hiding criminal acts perpetrated by priests and on and on... Nice defection on your part.

As I have stated before I have felt first hand the wrath of Catholic bigotry towards my atheism by some of its fine upstanding members. I have heard the same bigotry first hand from priests and popes. They are such a real pleasant group to be around!

[rug]

23. Before ventilating over "the wrath of Catholic bigotry towards my atheism" by spewing your own,

why don't you answer the question?

[rexcat]

24. I would give Hitchens' more...

credence concerning Mother Teresa than you. There have been others with the same story as Hitchens. There have been enough first hand witnesses come forward with the same charges against the newly anointed saint to make a compelling argument against her. Without the RCC opening "Saint" Teresa's records the allegations should stand. The leadership of the RCC does not know what openness is considering the amount of criminal activity by priests that were hidden by the RCC leadership in the past and probably today.

I don't think it is bigotry on my part when it comes to the RCC. The facts say differently. If you want to call be a bigot and therefore lying by inference that is your issue, not mine. The bigotry is coming from the leadership of the RCC and its members , especially when it comes to atheism. For you to argue that point is beyond the pale. Such weak sauce and typical obfuscation on your part as usual.

[rug]

25. "There have been enough first hand witnesses come forward with the same charges"

Where?

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

62. Given that Hitchens clearly intended to do a hatchet job on Mother Theresa from the start

His credibility on the subject is not good.

[rexcat]

65. All Hitchens did was...

expose "Saint" Teresa for was she was, a person who really did not care about the sick and dying corrupted by money. Of course there seems to be a thread amongst some catholics about needing to suffer when one is dying. As a former health care professional I never and still don't understand that concept other than having something mentally wrong with them.

[Htom Sirveaux]

26. It was an honest question.

The answer, as far as I'm concerned, could just as easily be "yes, here they are, the church comes off well in comparison to other charities." No assumptions implied.

[rug]

27. There is a lot of information out there.

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/finances-within-catholic-church

But it's not a good measure of good works.

[AtheistCrusader]

28. Good works like opposing the use of condoms outside marriage in the middle of an aids epidemic?

Good works like that?

[rug]

30. If one has the very narrow view of a fundamentalist, of any stripe.

Fortunately, most human beings have the ability to comprehend more than an agenda.

[AtheistCrusader]

36. Yes, do let's ignore the one that kills people.

[cleanhippie]

39. So many like him simply ignore ALL the problems in their church.

And then defend and deflect from those problems when they are brought up.

[rug]

41. And so many like you, no let's noy broadbrush, you, routinely post only what serves your preformed

opinion that the RCC is irredeemably corrupt, evil and a monstrosity.

Unfortunately, you don't do it very well.

[cleanhippie]

42. Bwahahahahahahaha!

Keep deflecting, keep defending.

And for god's sake, keep feeding that last-word compulsion.

[rug]

46. "Unfortunately, you don't do it very well."

QED.

[AtheistCrusader]

43. I can't parse your subject line, but yes, I do have opinions of the RCC.

Many of them not flattering to it as an organization.

What of it? That doesn't make my observations of the horrible, corrupt, and monstrous things the church has done, and continues to do, invalid.

[rexcat]

66. If you have an unflattering opinion...

concerning the RCC, to some on this forum, that makes you a bigot. This is not my opinion of you by any stretch of the imagination because I am on your side with this.

Of course I have seen comments from RCC apologist in this forum say they are working within the system to get change despite the fact the RCC leadership has not turned in priests for abhorrent criminal behavior such as pedophilia and other crimes. It seems the mentality of the RCC leadership is to protect the institution at any cost. It also appears that the leadership of the RCC, that would be priests and up, don't really care what the their flock thinks. More like dogma over reason.

[AtheistCrusader]

67. It doesn't work, because the RCC isn't a bottom-up organization.

There's nothing democratic about it. It's hierarchically top-down, and authoritarian.

'Change within the system' must come from the top. The new pope has made a couple noises about it, but nothing material as yet, and most of his noises are in-line with the same noises made by John Paul II.

[rexcat]

71. Totally agree with you...

which begs the question "why to members of the RCC think they can effect change within the church. Seems more delusional on their part or they actually agree with the leadership and are just blowing smoke to conceal their true agenda.

[Lordquinton]

49. You are confused again

We're talking about the origination, not the members. The organization as a whole has done great harm in this world, and continues to do so. if you have a problem with that then please take it up with your priest.

[rug]

53. "We're talking about the origination, not the members."

"if you have a problem with that then please take it up with your priest."

You're so steeped in it you don't even realize your own hypocrisy.

[Lordquinton]

56. "You're so steeped in it you don't even realize your own hypocrisy."

That could be the RCC's motto

[rug]

58. As it is, it's yours.

[Lordquinton]

69. Nope, I'm not being hypocritical

Point it out if you can.

[rug]

40. Or, you can ignore the reality of what you criticize and focus on what best suiys your agenda.

Tedious and dishonest.

[AtheistCrusader]

44. OR you can attempt to demonstrate that what I said was untrue.

But of course, you can't. It's well known, and easily demonstrated.

Hell, last year a cardinal slipped and stated publicly that condoms were ok, if in the case of married partners in which relationship one partner has aids.

Fuck everyone else though.

[rug]

45. I don't need to. It's your claim.

Go easily demonstrate it and we'll see where that leads.

[Lordquinton]

50. Demonstrate that god is real

It's your claim OH WAIT

[rug]

52. You're confusing me. Is that a diversion or yet another non sequitur?

[Lordquinton]

55. You're the expert on those subjects

you tell me.

[Lordquinton]

48. Are you serious?

You never answer questions and divert all the time, You're still trying to find out who "Us" is like Issa going after Benghazi.

[rug]

51. Oh, are you going to answer the question now?

[Lordquinton]

70. After the laundry list of questions you've deflected

What are your views, can you disprove anything anyone in this thread has said, etc.

[LostOne4Ever]

68. Just another reason

My generation is abandoning religion in increasing numbers.