September 11 museum allowed to display Ground Zero cross-shaped beam

[rug]

Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:14pm EDT
By Joseph Ax
NEW YORK

(Reuters) - A cross-shaped steel beam pulled from the rubble of the collapsed World Trade Center in New York days after the September 11, 2001, attacks can be displayed in the national memorial museum at the site, a U.S. appeals court ruled on Monday.

An atheist group in 2011 sued the museum and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey seeking to block the display as unconstitutional, arguing that the cross was a religious symbol that had no place in a government-sponsored institution.

In 2013, U.S. District Judge Deborah Batts dismissed the lawsuit, and a three-judge panel of the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld her ruling in a unanimous decision on Monday.

“As a matter of law, the record compels the conclusion that appellees’ actual purpose in displaying The Cross at Ground Zero has always been secular: to recount the history of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, and their aftermath,” Circuit Judge Reena Raggi wrote for the court.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/28/us-usa-court-security-idUSKBN0FX1M620140728

Click on Today's decisions to read the 42 page decision: http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisions

[hrmjustin]

1. I have to say I agree it should stay in the museum.

[rug]

2. The decision pretty thoroughly explains why.

[Politicalboi]

3. Better to have trinkets

Than a real investigation. How about the beams that were cut at an angle? I guess those were the one's sent to China in a matter of days rather than studying what and why the beams failed. Nothing to see here. Museum of lies.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. They were cut by workers with cutting torches. Try bringing something interesting, rather than one

of the easiest-debunked claims.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

4. I guess a symbol of a torture device is appropriate. USA...USA

[Politicalboi]

5. LOL!

USA! USA! USA!

[AtheistCrusader]

6. Clearly this is meaningful.

A cross-shaped piece of two beams, out of a from a building constructed out of hundreds of thousands of similar right-angle joins, is meaningful.

Derp.

Have your 'symbol'. It's meaningless noise.

In fairness, I don't believe inclusion of this 'symbol' is in any way a first amendment violation. Nobody asked believers if they approved of using scrap steel from the building to build a warship. Etc. It's an artifact from the building. Go for it.

Bad or competing intentions all around.

[longship]

7. I am not fine with this.

One wonders what New York City's substantial Jewish population thinks of it. Too bad on all accounts.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. It's one artifact among many on display.

They seem to have included as much meaningful stuff as they could from it...

More interesting to me was the Nokia cell phones found, still ringing in the rubble.

[longship]

9. Touché!

I get it.

But I am more than a bit sensitive to the GOP "Christian Country" argument. And as many people have pointed out, steel supports in a building are often at 90 degree angles, so this artifact is kind of inevitable.

My problem is why they chose this particular artifact. The framing of it has only been in a Christian context.

That is the problem.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. I do think, it doesn't help their case that they drug in the biggest damn item

the could find, that sort of dominates the display. I think there's a section of wall that's a bit bigger...

But yeah, I can understand it bothering some people.

[longship]

16. What really bothers me...

is that the first conspiracy theory that came out is that the Jews were all some how all told to stay home that day. Like all of the conspiracy theories, it was utter bullshit.

For Christ sake -- so to speak -- Dubya and his minions as much as called the war on Iraq a crusade! (Their first knee jerk reaction.)

I call it a huge mistake. The blow back of Dubya's foreign policy has not yet been realized.

[msongs]

10. since their god sent/caused 911 a cross reminder of its "love" is totally appropriate nt

[rug]

13. Oh, you don't think humans jacked those planes?

[cbayer]

14. No, it was definitely god. Haven't you seen the passport photos?

[rug]

15. That's what I get for doubting.

Mea culpa.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. For who/what?

[rug]

18. Osama, etc. / to remove US troops, etc.

Read the whole story. Don't gullibly say they did it to go to Paradise.

[AtheistCrusader]

19. Actually, I agree with you here.

I think the air base in Saudi Arabia was the proximate cause.

Obviously Osama had other reasons as well, but none garnered him political support, money, volunteers, like that issue, in my estimate.
BUT that brings us back around to why. This was not just 'nationalism', that led to the political rejection of that site. It was there, ostensibly, to protect Saudi Arabia, as in, the Saudi Royal Family's rule, from possible interference by Saddam. (And we closed that site after Iraq was shredded in an unnecessary war)

The view is, that land was 'holy'. So ignoring the paradise bit, and fully keeping the 'remove troops' view in scope, religion is still involved here, because that land was imbued with some magical property that made it offensive at a wildly fundamental level, for them to physically occupy it.

There's more elements to it, for instance, the hard liners that live there would like for the Saudi Royal Family to take a hike, but the holy land bit was the most-cited cause.

[mr blur]

22. Oh goody, here comes public deflector # 1. Yawn

[rug]

24. Yeah, whatever disturbs your worldview is a deflection.

[Jim__]

20. That sounds like the right decision. - n/t

[cbayer]

21. I think this is the correct decision.

This structure took on a historical meaning that superseded religion for many people. There are many religious icons in the museum, this one is just particularly large.

IMO, we have to make room for everyone and this excludes no one.

[Nye Bevan]

23. Forcing visitors to the museum to kneel and recite the Lord's Prayer would be unacceptable.

Displaying an artefact that provided comfort to many and is part of the event's history, whether or not you are a Christian, is a no-brainer, and I'm glad the judge agreed.