Never Mind, Catholic Church Will Probably Just Keeping Hating Gays Like Always

[trotsky]

Wonkette piece on this week's "seismic shift" and the following backtrack.

http://wonkette.com/563359/never-mind-catholic-church-will-probably-just-keeping-hating-gays-like-always

Seems like only yesterday we were singing the Catholic Church’s praises for showing the tiniest (the very tiniest) bit of humanity toward The Gay. On Monday, we heard the good word that New Pope and pals were talking about maybe talking about being nicer to The Gay, because maybe they are also people too. A document leaked from their Synod Sleepaway Camp, in which they wrote — shudder! gasp! — that “homosexuals have gifts and qualities to offer the Christian community.” And we said, “Good job, Catholic Church, that’s a nice step forward.”

Whoops, our bad!

...

Now we get to wonder just what in the hell is going on in the super secret for-men-only-but-not-in-a-gay-way (ahem) clubhouse. Whatever the final version of the document is, we’re guessing it’s not going to be “Hey, we read the Bible and found out it doesn’t actually say ‘God hates fags’ in there after all!” If the Vatican has to immediately rush out and assure all of its followers not to worry, the Church still sincerely believes The Gay is bad and wrong and will burn in hell, but maybe we could use our polite inside voices when we tell them that, that doesn’t exactly deserve much praise. Or any.

And should we even bother to mention that an organization that has spent millions of dollars to cover up its global and very widespread epidemic of priests raping kids — because, see, it’s the pedophiles who need protection because “charity” — is not exactly in a position to evaluate anyone else, positively or otherwise? Nah.

[mr blur]

1. Poor old Blank Frank

If only his hands weren't tied

[trotsky]

2. So true.

If only his organization were set up that he was the ultimate authority and could change whatever policy he wants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
"When, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."

Certainly that must not mean what it clearly means.

[theHandpuppet]

3. I'm still waiting for the bishops and archbishops in Uganda and Nigeria to be recalled

You know, the ones who threw their public support behind some of the most anti-gay laws in the world. But I guess someone will explain to me why Francis is powerless to do that, as well.

[Bluenorthwest]

4. The people who really make me sick are those who rush to claim great changes have been made

when no such changes have happened. The malign arrogance of that crowd is just terrible to behold.

[upaloopa]

5. The " Catholic Church" is a boogie man I think.

I was raised Catholic and my brother is a Catholic priest. I never believed in the Church's teachings or creed. My brother and I are different in that respect but neither of us is homophobic. I married into a family were I now have a gay brother-in-law and sister-in-law. My point is that Catholics are not a homogeneous group. The official church does not represent the beliefs of the all the "faithful."

[trotsky]

6. Totally irrelevant point.

The official church teaching on this subject is shared by the vast majority of the world's Catholics. Those in the US and Europe have moved beyond the hateful bigotry on this subject to some extent (however it's still quite common among them as well).

The RCC also uses its size and influence to affect secular laws in the countries where it has a considerable presence as well.

These teachings matter for millions around the globe. Your dismissal of this subject trivializes the real pain and discrimination they face.

[upaloopa]

7. You are wrong

My point is totally relevant. Too bad your prejudices blind you.

[cleanhippie]

8. Wow, that is a powerful argument!

"Nuh uh! YOU'RE wrong"!

And the bonus personal attack you added is the cherry on top. Who could argue with such intellectual superiority?

[rug]

9. And that is completely devoid of argument.

[trotsky]

13. Thanks for the personal insult.

Last edited Wed Oct 15, 2014, 08:13 PM - Edit history (1)

Would you care to address any of the points I made? Such as the fact that the RCC does indeed influence laws in countries - laws that affect everyone, not just Catholics?

Is that one of my "prejudices" that I perceive things like this happening?

[upaloopa]

16. You do the victim thing well

I said not all Catholics are homophobes. You said that was not relevant. I said you are wrong. You say I insult you.
What's next I killed your mother?

[trotsky]

17. I agree with you that not all Catholics are homophobes.

But whether they are or not IS irrelevant, because their church is run by men who are. Men who have the power and influence to affect others' lives.

Do you agree or disagree with that fact? Please answer the question. I have not insulted you at all here, I believe I am owed an honest answer.

[upaloopa]

25. I am not saying things well and am sorry for the post

I can't communicate the idea so it is not offensive

[trotsky]

26. I accept your apology.

For the record, I have never said that all Catholics are homophobes.

However, the church leaders are. And they are constantly trying to influence secular laws and policies that affect Catholics and non-Catholics alike. I don't think it is responsible to dismiss that - that is why I responded to you.

[upaloopa]

27. Thanks

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. I suggest you edit out "too bad your prejudices blind you"

if you want to limit your posts to the narrative you now claim for them. An apology for it would be even better.

[upaloopa]

24. I am sorry for my post

As I think about it I am not communicating well. I can't imagine your suffering and I feel bad that you have to put up with hatred toward you.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. Thank you; I personally am not suffering

it was just a question of whether the discussion was getting personal without you realising it.

[upaloopa]

29. No not personal just poor word choices

[Warren Stupidity]

11. "The Catholic Church" means exactly that: the institution, the RCC.

What this institution does, how it acts in the world is what we are talking about. What "the Catholic Church" doesn't mean is "anyone who happens to identify as Catholic". However, frequently when posts are made here criticizing "the Catholic Church" people, such as yourself insist on turning that into an attack on "anyone who happens to identify as Catholic". Why you and others do that is anyone's guess, mine would be because it enables you to accuse those criticizing your church as bigots.

[edhopper]

18. So your brother will marry

Gay couples in the Church. Give gay people communion and openongly welcome gay members without restriction?

Or does he fully follow the Church's decrees when it comes to Gay people.

[rug]

10. And pedophilia has exactly what to do wit this?

[beam me up scottie]

12. Wonkette is obviously another bigoted anti-theist who'll use any excuse to bash believers.

I mean it's not like the Vatican's policies affect non-Catholics.

[trotsky]

14. Why not let the Catholic Church determine birth control options for everyone?

After all, an open-minded, tolerant DUer once said that women could just buy their "rubbers" at the drugstore "like everyone else."

[beam me up scottie]

15. Too bad that level of willful ignorance isn't physically painful

Unfortunately teh stoopid only hurts women.

[trotsky]

19. But I'm not a woman, you see.

Let me substitute "Catholic" with "female" and use a classic quote from a certain DUer:

"If I were female, I would be outraged and would speak out, but I'm not."

His logic says, if it doesn't affect me directly, why should I care?

[beam me up scottie]

21. I'd like to think it was ignorance and not selfishness that inspired such a comment.

But after reading multiple posts just as misogynistic and illiberal I have to conclude it's because he really doesn't give a shit.

What's even worse is that we're called bigots because we do care.

[trotsky]

22. Between that and the "rubbers" comment...

it's hard to come to any other conclusion. But you are right, we are the bigots because we think ridiculous things such as believing that the Catholic Church taking over the only hospital in an area and dictating the kinds of procedures allowed could actually affect non-Catholics. We're insane, out-of-control, anti-Catholic bigots I tell ya!

[edhopper]

23. Or if you simply work for a Catholic

They can dictate everything from healthcare to lifestyle.

But, you know, it doesn't matter cause some Catholics don't do that.