Atheists who "fail at humanity" vs Theists who "execute for blasphemy."

[Warren Stupidity]

You be the judge

4 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Athiests who fail at humanity
	2 (50%)
	Theists who execute for blasphemy
	0 (0%)
	Pie
	2 (50%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[peacebird]

1. Missing the descriptor: which do we trust more/like more or distrust/dislike more!

[Warren Stupidity]

2. feel free to judge in any way you choose.

[CJCRANE]

3. I root for the underdog. I root for believers persecuted under communism

and for atheists persecuted under theocratic systems.

It is the application and interpretation of any "ism" that matters IMO, whether religious or secular.

[beam me up scottie]

4. Hmmm, individual sexist atheists vs religious executions for saying the wrong thing...

Can I make up my own?:

Theists who do everything from preventing women from accessing birth control to executing them for the crime of being raped and everything in between

[intaglio]

5. H'mm but who puts themselves forward as rational and unbound by theocratic influences

do you somehow find criticism hits a bit too close to home?

Or do you think that certain British Atheists and other misogynists are immune to criticism because of their atheism?

[beam me up scottie]

6. A matter of perspective and definition

Individual sexist atheists suck but their bigotry is not institutionalized misogyny.

But I suspect you knew that.



eta Warren has never shied away from criticizing sexist atheists but I suspect you knew that too

Nice to see you care more about slamming atheists than condemning misogyny where it's most prevalent

[intaglio]

8. Nope I don't "know" that

Given the constant undercurrent of loathing that much atheism accommodates. This is why Atheism + was started and why its self identified members have been subject to a constant barrage of vilification and belittlement.

If you set yourself up to be an arbiter of rationality then it behoves you to be actually rational and not use superficial rationality to hide prejudice and bigotry.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. "Given the constant undercurrent of loathing that much atheism accommodates"

what horseshit. Atheism doesn't accommodate anything other than a lack of belief (or arguably a positive assertion of non-belief) in deities. I'm sure you actually mean something other than "atheism".

[intaglio]

13. Yes as exemplified by Dawkins, Sam Harris, Thundert00t and many others

Even you have shown an inability to comprehend the extent to which the "boyz only - no poopy GIRrLS allowed," attitude has infested simple atheism.

[Goblinmonger]

14. Of course there are many others that fight against them

Or does PZ not fit into your schemata?

[intaglio]

19. Have you actually bothered to check any other of todays posts in "Religion"?

You will see I have talked about Dawkins et al

Indee this entire thread is an attempt by Warren to distract from my earlier post about "Atheists who fail at humanity".

[Goblinmonger]

21. How about you stop acting like I'm a clueless wonder

Yes, I have seen the other posts in Religion.

You swipe a pretty damn broad brush in your attack on atheism. Maybe distracting from your swinging of that brush isn't a bad thing for you.

[intaglio]

26. I will when you stop denying any flaw in atheism as it currently exists

That is either dogmatism or blindness.

As you claim to have read the other posts then you will know that I have referred to P Z Myers and others. You should also be aware that others have also pointed to the snarky boys club atmosphere that infests much of atheist discussion.

[beam me up scottie]

29. Do you really expect me to believe you're doing this out of concern for women?

What I'm aware of is that your issues with DU atheists got you banned from A/A.

And now you're accusing Warren of defending sexists.

Nothing to do with a personal vendetta, you just couldn't stand to see us poor wimmenfolk being abused any longer...

[intaglio]

32. Oh FFS

I was banned because I made the same sort of points and would not stick to the party line. I really could not give a twopenny upright about that little clique. In case you missed it I was also advised to make posts about such subjects in Religion.

Now why are you saying my concern for women is false? Is it because you cannot empathise with others and so deny that such an ability exists?

[beam me up scottie]

39. I am saying I don't think you give a shit about sexism unless it suits your agenda.

Where are your threads condemning religious misogyny?

I don't believe I've ever seen you criticize the Vatican for its policies.

How about all those theists who fail at humanity?

[Goblinmonger]

33. Please show me where I have denied any flaw.

Actually I've done the opposite.

[intaglio]

36. Ok so condemn such misogyny even the snark seen on DU

and please don't plead ignorance - just look through the boards I have mentioned with an open mind.

[Goblinmonger]

37. Snark =/= misogyny

Please show me a couple posts in A/A that you think are misogynistic.

[phil89]

40. Atheism is a lack of belief in God/gods

thats IT. It carries with it no dogma, tenets, rules, etc. if people choose to attach something to their atheism it is irrelevant to what atheism itself is.

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. That's damn rude of you - asked if you know something about a DUer, you bring up

what you see as "the constant undercurrent of loathing that much atheism accommodates". You directed that as a DUer, without any justification whatsoever. You are accusing a DUer of 'loathing' - and in the context of whether Warren criticises sexist atheists, you seem to be accusing him of loathing women.

Attack 'Thunderf00t' for his misogyny by all means, but don't try to group DUers in with him.

[beam me up scottie]

27. Which atheist DUers here defended misogyny?

Until you prove your claim the only bigot in this thread is you.

[intaglio]

30. Read the Mens Group

Read some few of the posts in A&A especially when they deny their prejudice

[beam me up scottie]

31. No. You made the claim back it up.

I post in AA and am intimately familiar with sexism, so point out what I've missed.

[intaglio]

34. I have read the Mens Group

Go to HoF and see how often such misogyny on DU is mentioned. I'm sorry if you are ignorant but that is not my fault

[beam me up scottie]

38. I don't care, if you can't back up your accusations don't make them.

You accused DU atheists of defending bigots, now you can't prove it and I'm supposed to research thousands of posts?

[Warren Stupidity]

42. Just so I understand, your problem with atheists here on DU is "the men's group".

OK.

[trotsky]

7. They're TOTALLY THE SAME man!

[intaglio]

9. You do realise this is just Dawkins' "Dear Muslima" argument?

With exactly the same flaw.

[trotsky]

10. TOTALLY THE SAME!

You rock, man!

[Goblinmonger]

15. Of course they don't excuse it.

Who here is saying that they do?

But don't you think it seems a little bit like "look at the horrible atheists over there" as an attempt to deflect from the ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIC SHIT going on in organized religion? Hitchens is dead. Harris and Dawkins aren't the leaders of the atheist religion. PZ Meyers is fighting the fight. Harris and Dawkins don't want to take away the rights of women.

[intaglio]

18. You have heard of Richard Dawkins ridiculous "Dear Muslima" post?

In it he tried to say that because women in the First World were fighting for their own rights, bad things happened to women in Muslim countries. The cartoon posted by Trotsky, in this context made the same sort of argument, that because religion was bad nothing needs to be done about the bad things in atheism.

[Goblinmonger]

20. Yes, I am. And I'm also aware of the fallacy of false privation

But the problem is that Dawkins never said that everything was great here. He was trying to indicate that there are worse forms of sexism in the world.

Do you disagree with that?

Would you rather live here or in a Muslim theocracy?

[intaglio]

23. False equivalence and a straw man argument - Nice going!

I did not say there were not worse forms of oppression, I would not wish to live in a Muslim theocracy

I do say that there are restrictions on the rights of women in this culture and as such this is not a false privation it is a real privation. I do say that the existence of "worse oppression" does not excuse the existence of "lesser oppression" any more than the existence of ebola excuses the existence of HPV. Indeed unless the lesser oppression is combated then it can, or possibly will, become worse; perhaps even matching the greater oppression.

[Goblinmonger]

25. I said I was aware of the fallacy of false privation

But, hey, don't let your outrage get in the way of what I'm actually saying.

The lesser oppression is being combated. Things are getting better in the atheist community.

And are you seriously saying that the atheist community, such as it is, is going to match Muslim theocracy in terms of oppression of women? Because it kind of sounds like that. And I'M the one making the false equivalence.

[intaglio]

28. You implied that I was guilty of that fallacy

I responded.

You claim things are getting better? - evidence, please.

Dawkins, Hitchens, Thundert00t, Sam Harris give the lie to your claim about a move towards the "best of all possible worlds"

[Goblinmonger]

35. No, I didn't.

You talked about Dawkins letter. Which is potentially an example of the fallacy of false privation. You may want to stay out of discussions of fallacies, then, because you may be in over your head of you misunderstood that discussion.

And, please, do tell how Hitchens, who is worm food, can possibly be an example that things are moving in the wrong direction. PZ Meyers, and the many that agree with him and support him, are the example of things better better that is the most obvious and that you have posted yourself.

[phil89]

41. The bad things in atheism?

do you understand that atheism is nothing more than the rejection of a claim that a god or gods exist? It's not subject to bad or good, any more than non belief in Santa carries bad or good with it. Pretty basic stuff

[Warren Stupidity]

44. yes but santa knows if you've been naughty.

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. Sorry

But I really like pie.

[Warren Stupidity]

45. no pie for you

all pie lovers are potential misogynists.

[Act_of_Reparation]

49. True, but I think it would depend on whether or not you expect someone to make said pie...

I'm not picky, however; I just eat the pie. How the pie arrives on my plate ain't my department.

[rug]

24. "Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll"

One of the more stupid ones.

[AtheistCrusader]

43. Honestly, I thought Pie was a pretty decent option.

[mmonk]

46. Choosing between two wrongs isn't what I wish to do.

I would choose pie but prefer Pad Thai.

[Warren Stupidity]

47. you see no difference between these issues?

[mmonk]

48. I see alot of differences.

But lack of humanity links them.

[AlbertCat]

50. I vote PIE

Because there isn't a human that fails at humanity completely.... atheist or theist

There are theists who execute for blasphemy.... but they are extremists that most religionists don't take to. There are no atheist extremists of the same caliber. (No Stalin and PolPot did not kill people over atheism... but for different reasons)

[Tikki]

51. < 3.14159265359

Tikki

[Prophet 451]

52. Both are assholes

The theists why execute for blasphemy are murderous savages. The atheists who fail at humanity are, for now, just assholes.