Question.

[littlemissmartypants]

Is the rapture a man made event? Has this concept of the supposed divine awakening with the promise of ecstatic relief and joy in perpetuity, been merely a creation in the mind, created intellectually but not truly a promise of scripture?


Thanks in advance for your ponder, or reply.

Please.
Hit me with your best shot.
Quote all and any "Holy Texts" exceptions for Hawking, with whom I do not agree and prefer not to hear. (I don't know why. He just rubs me the wrong way.*)

Theology, science, philosophy, physics, history (distant and recent) and academia not excluded.


What is your idea of the end? Your last breath or beyond?

Peace, Love and Shelter.
~ littlemissmartypants 🌻

*Euphemism, idiomatic, possible Southern USA origins, for annoys.

[jwirr]

1. Many of the rw churches practice this idea. To my knowledge the idea of a rapture is new. It was

introduced in the 1800s.

[hrmjustin]

2. I don't believe in the Evangelical view of the Rapture.

It mainly was developed in the 19th century and is not my cup of tea.I do believe there will be an end time but not in my life time and I think the planet will continue on.

I believe as soon as we die we enter the afterlife but what it is I don't know. I hope we are happy, live forever, and have a free bar.

[Act_of_Reparation]

31. That's half-right.

The rapture itself isn't new. Most sects of Christianity hold that upon Christ's victory over evil, the "sheep will be separated from the goats", and the righteous will ascend into heaven.

What is new, however, is the concept of a pre-tribulation rapture. This holds that the righteous will ascend into heaven before the final showdown, that they'll be spared the torment of the last days.

[hrmjustin]

32. Thus I said the evangelical point of view.

[Act_of_Reparation]

34. I misread that.

My mistake.

[hrmjustin]

35. No worries.

[saltpoint]

3. It's not an event at all.

It's religious elitism: "The blessed shall rise!" --while the sinning rabble writhe in suffering below.

People can choose to believe it if they want. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.

[A HERETIC I AM]

4. The idea of "being caught up in the air" to meet Jesus is loosely based on a passage....

from 1st Thessalonians, ostensibly written by a guy who never met Jesus.


So there you go.



http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

In other words, it's bollocks, and the dogs bollocks to boot

[EvolveOrConvolve]

5. Some of us would argue that all religion is man made

So yes, I think the rapture is a man made construct. And a bit silly as well (or bollocks as another astute poster put it). Once I take my last breath, that's the end of me; I become food for some other critters, and the molecules that made me "me" will be part of something else. I'll just be gone, other than whatever memory of me remains. And after a few generations, even that will have disappeared.

I'm confused about why Hawking would rub you the wrong way. Other than his tortured mechanical speech, he's an extremely sharp person who is one of the best examples of an evidence-based thinker we have. Whether or not you agree with him is moot - in general, his findings are based on sound scientific principles rather than opinion. Also confused about why you would consider something written by Hawking as "holy texts".

[A HERETIC I AM]

7. I can't speak for him.....

but speaking as a member of that group....



No.


Sorry.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. Yup.

And you're right.

I'm not sorry.

Even though you and I have had pleasant exchanges in the past, specifically in the cooking and baking group, I'll not give you a pass in this regard.

Safe havens are what they are. You're free to petition for yet another one where you can bash any DU'er you please.

The fact is, the AA group has just as much right to say what they will about any other member as any other safe haven, so long as those comments withstand jury and board owner scrutiny.

Sorry, but you don't get a pass here. Just because you're offended, doesn't mean others should be silenced.

So...you're offended? Be offended! Nothing happens! It's not like you're going to wake up with leprosy in the morning!

Relax. It's just a message board. If I were you, I'd be on deck, mending a Spinnaker and enjoying the day.

[A HERETIC I AM]

11. You have GOT to be kidding!

Look....it's obvious to even the casual observer that you are passionate about this subject, but give me a fucking break!

"Witch Hunt"?

Seriously?

Come on now, Madam. You are making a rather large stretch here.

You have come to no harm other than your sensibilities have, on occasion, been tussled. No one has harmed you physically nor has anyone hunted you. That is just absurd.

IT'S A MESSAGE BOARD!

WHERE I STAND IS WITH RATIONAL THINKING.


OK?

You have come to no harm and what you have been subjected to in no way constitutes a "Witch Hunt"

You are testing the limits of credulity.

And sure...I'll give ya a hug, cause I am that kind of guy;

[cbayer]

13. I am going to delete all this and ask that you do the same.

[A HERETIC I AM]

14. OK

But nope

[Warren Stupidity]

15. wow. just wow.

I've actually never seen the "you must delete your posts too" demand here. Good luck with that.

[beam me up scottie]

17. I know, right?

Too bad so sad some of us got to read the deleted ones before they were scrubbed.

[NYC_SKP]

22. The hatred and swarming and bullying by some who proclaim superiority is unbelievable.

There's nothing superior or enlightened about insults and swarming and then laughing about it.

Not religious but still I think I'm going to pray for the haters.

The ACLU says I can.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1168928



Live and let live.

[A HERETIC I AM]

24. If you are insinuating that I "proclaim superiority"...

Kindly show me where I said any such thing.


"I'm going to pray for the haters"


LOL...yeah...you do that.

I just gave $10 to a panhandler and reminded him that at least 80% of the people he asks for money that turn him down are Christians.

So pray away.

[NYC_SKP]

28. No, I'm sorry if you got that impression. I was not, in fact, thinking about you at all.

There have been other exchanges of late that revealed the problem to me and you weren't involved in them.

I'm not a Christian, I'm not an anything though test out as being closest to Buddhist in those Belief-o-matic surveys.



Peace.

[A HERETIC I AM]

29. Fair enough. n/t

[hrmjustin]

25. I pray for all the members of this room unless they specifically ask me not to.

And a few have asked me not to but I wish all well in this room.

[bvf]

36. I'm specifically asking you not to. n/t

[hrmjustin]

37. No problem!

[rug]

38. Lol!

I won't either.

[rug]

16. It actually reads better when he doesn't self-delete.

The pomposity is more pronounced.

WHERE I STAND IS WITH RATIONAL THINKING.

[A HERETIC I AM]

20. YOU, of all people...

Last edited Sun Oct 19, 2014, 06:56 AM - Edit history (1)

Calling anyone Pompous is what is truly funny

[rug]

23. Lol!

I must get out my sackcloth.

[skepticscott]

21. Apparently calling criticism of one's posts

"bullying", "stalking", "personal attacks" and "harassment" isn't enough. Now it's a "witch hunt" (a term used here with no apparent understanding of what it means).

[Lordquinton]

30. according to some here they were really nothing

Just a small town land grab that never ever happened again ( and had nothing to do with religion)

[littlemissmartypants]

19. Well said.

Tortuous mechanical speech indeed. And I don't disagree with him. You are correct in that idea. I view his writings as a type of holy text in fact because of the content from a scientific point of view.

Thanks for your reply.

[mr blur]

12. On what subjects do you disagree with Hawking? Black holes? The nature of Time?

The no-boundary proposition? Properties of Expanding Universes? The quantum mechanics of microcausality?

If he annoys you that much then that would probably explain why we haven't seen you debating Professor Hawking on his statement: "It is my view that the simplest explanation is there is no God. No one created the universe and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization. There is probably no heaven, and no afterlife either. We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe, and for that, I am extremely grateful."

I guess that takes care of your Rapture question.

This may amuse you:

[goldent]

18. As a lifelong Catholic, I have never heard of rapture

I've heard the term of course and just Googled it to confirm it means more-or-less what I thought. I think Catholic theology says there will an end of time, just as there was a beginning, but I don't know the details - I view it as something the academics discuss.

[elleng]

26. I'll be 'rapturous' if I'm pushing up daisies

at a scenic hillside, that's MY event, and everyone has his/her own imagining, imo.

[BlueJazz]

27. My thoughts are: When I die, the lights will go out and never turn back on. I'm OK with that.

I wasn't around for 14-16 billion years and will not be around to see ALL the lights go out. (Trillions of years)

I treasure every day here and try to not hurt or harm others...with rare exceptions.

[NYC_SKP]

33. I think we're endless, though not as a whole. We "live on" in two ways:

In the physical sense, I believe we dissolve after death back into the universe from which we came; a reversal of the process if you will.

This is why I hope to be cremated and not preserved and buried in a futile attempt to remain intact.

In the metaphysical sense, we leave behind the results of our efforts, both good and bad.

That good deed, that child you raised or a book you wrote, all of these have lives beyond our physical being.

Not very complex and I don't believe in rapture, not for myself, I think it might be an important concept to others but not me.

Thanks for raising the questions, LMSP!