Stop Celebrating the Pope's Views on Evolution and the Big Bang. They Make No Sense.

[trotsky]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/120025/pope-francis-quotes-evolution-big-bang-are-nothing-celebrate

The recent history of Catholicism and evolution is spotty. Pope Pius XII claimed that evolution might indeed be true, but insisted that humans were a special exception since they had been bestowed by God with souls, a feature present in no other species. There was further human exceptionalism: Adam and Eve were seen as the historical and literal ancestors of all humanity.

Both of these features fly in the face of science. We have no evidence for souls, as biologists see our species as simply the product of naturalistic evolution from earlier species. (And when, by the way, are souls supposed to have entered our lineage? Did Homo erectus have them?) Further, evolutionary genetics has conclusively demonstrated that we never had only two ancestors: if you back-calculate from the amount of genetic variation present in our species today, the minimum population size of humans within the last million years is about twelve thousand. The notion of Adam and Eve as the sole and historical ancestors of modern humans is simply a fiction—one that the Church still maintains, but that other Christians are busy, as is their wont, trying to convert into a metaphor.

...

What is clear is that creationism of some sort is still an essential part of Francis’s view of life. Although the media, besotted by a supposedly “modern” Pope, is all excited about what Francis said, his views don’t differ in substance from that of his recent predecessors. As usual, Francis appears to be a voice for modernity but still clings to old dogma.

...

The Catholic Church is in a tough spot, straddling an equipoise between modern science and antiscientific medieval theology. When it jettisons the idea of the soul, of God’s intervention in the Big Bang and human evolution, and the notion of Adam and Eve as our historical ancestors, then Catholicism will be compatible with evolution. But then it would not be Catholicism.

[MADem]

1. Why does this writer so stridently chastise people? Let them do/think what they want.

People who want to hyper-control how others interpret their reality might want to step back and re-calibrate their own world view.

I don't see how the pope's--pardon the exprression--evolution is harmful, if anything, it is a step in the right direction.

Confucious said something about a journey of a thousand miles...?

In any event, I rather doubt the followers of the Pope will read this and go "Ooooh, noooo! All the Catholics will have to back up and change their whole worldview!!!! Some guy who is antagonistically antithetical to the RC POV doesn't approve of how the RC spiritual leader interprets this matter!"

The writer of this piece is free to "disagree"--and I'd expect him to, too, given his resume -- but telling people to STOP sounds bossy and insecure to me. Maybe the writer had nothing to do with the headline, and the TNR editors (such as they are) wrote the headline because they were click-baiting, who knows? That might mitigate slightly, but only just.

I think he's preaching to his own choir, because the Pope-followers will just shrug and say "What-evs" (as the kids do). They won't be moved, while the people who agree with this article will nod in a knowing and slightly smug manner and do the 21st century version of virtual high fives and chest bumps. At the end of the day, it's an interesting academic exercise, maybe.

[Goblinmonger]

2. Perhaps it has to do

with all the people lining up to say how awesome the new Pope is because of all these awesome things he says.

[MADem]

3. Maybe. nt

[gcomeau]

14. Yeah! And if they want to tell people 2+2=yellow...

...or eating cotton candy makes you fart rainbows who are we to say otherwise or criticize those views???

"I don't see how the pope's--pardon the exprression--evolution is harmful,"

It's actively undermining the basic principles that make science function (like tossing the falsifiabilty criteria for hypotheses on the trash-heap) in the guise of science friendliness. It's the EXACT reason "Intelligent Design" was invented in the first place, as a stealth vehicle to sneak creationism into science classes camouflaged as scientific thought and undermine legitimate scientific data.

It is in no way a step in the right direction any more than those lying jerks who started this movement were stepping in the right direction. It is an attempt to drag science off in the wrong direction and Nothing More.

[Leontius]

4. Why is it that freethinkers ability to be actual freethinkers ends where their ability

to comprehend or understand ends?

[trotsky]

5. Tell you what.

You get the pope to see where his ability to comprehend or understand science ends, and this piece isn't even needed.

What a deal.

[rug]

10. Tell you what.

You get Coyne to see where his ability to comprehend or understand religion ends, and this piece isn't even needed.

What a deal.

[Gore1FL]

12. What is there to understand about religion other than it is unproved and wastes resources?

Unless God is a quantum fluctuation, then God didn't create the universe.

The Pope can't stand in the world of reality and the world of make believe and be credible. It's nice that he is giving a nod to the world of reality, but he can't let go of the make believe. Until he can, there is nothing to cheer.

[skepticscott]

6. The woo is strong in this pope

Pope Francis: 'Evolution Is Not Inconsistent With The Notion Of Creation'
Josephine McKenna Religion News Service 10/27/14 05:44 PM ET
VATICAN CITY (RNS) Pope Francis on Monday (Oct. 27) waded into the controversial debate over the origins of human life, saying the big bang theory did not contradict the role of a divine creator, but even required it.

The pope was addressing the plenary assembly of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, which gathered at the Vatican to discuss “Evolving Concepts of Nature.”

“When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said.

“He created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one so they would reach their fulfillment.”

Francis said the beginning of the world was not “a work of chaos” but created from a principle of love. He said sometimes competing beliefs in creation and evolution could co-exist.

“God is not a divine being or a magician, but the Creator who brought everything to life,” the pope said. “Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve"

Could Blank Frank be any more two-faced? I'm sure all of the accomodationists here are swooning over this, as they do over every other utterance from him, but taking a multitude of diametrically opposed positions is just PR ass-kissing all around.

[trotsky]

7. Trying to be everything to everyone generally ends up being nothing at all.

And that's Blank Frank. Nothing has changed. But he sure looks great doing it.

[rug]

11. Where? I want to take pictures.

I'm sure all of the accomodationists here are swooning over this, as they do over every other utterance from him

Or are you just particularly bitter today?

[littlemissmartypants]

8. ..

Pope you're drunk, go home.

[rug]

9. Oh, it's Jerry Coyne.

I wonder if he has figured out the difference between creation and creationism yet.

[Gore1FL]

13. They both rely on a fictional creator. Both are easily dismissed as such. n/t