Jesus Didn't Care About Correct Doctrine, and Neither Should We

[cbayer]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mick-mooney/jesus-didnt-care-about-co_b_6170244.html

Mick Mooney
Author, 'An Outsider's Guide to the Gospel'

Posted: 11/17/2014 3:51 pm EST Updated: 11/17/2014 3:51 pm EST

In the gospels we read how Jesus was always around people. He had a life full of relationships. Always talking, drinking, eating, relaxing; sometimes entertaining his guests and sometimes being entertained by them. What is fascinating is that these relationships were not based on these people holding to the same theology and doctrines as Jesus did. In fact, it's safe to say that none of them believed like Jesus did. Yet he was always in the company of people, and these connections became very deep and heartfelt relationships.

It seems to me that if we truly want a life full of loving relationships, we need to care less about what doctrines or world views people believe and more about the actual person. When we let our love for others be what unites us, we begin to have a life full of meaningful relationships.

Seeking out relationships or fellowship based on doctrinal agreements is a sad and ineffective substitute for love. What we need to do is choose the more divine way. The way that allows love to be what unites us to others, for that, I honestly believe, is the way of Christ.



One of the dangers with religion is it can so easily fool you into believing you're living your life, when in fact all you are doing is going round and round in circles, doing the same thing week in, week out, talking to the same people, speaking with the same language, talking about the same things.

more at link

[trotsky]

1. Interesting.

doc·trine
ˈdäktrən/
noun
noun: doctrine; plural noun: doctrines

a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group.

John 14:6 - Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Seems a little doctrine-ish.

Matthew 5:18 - "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

Maybe a bit as well.

Matthew 7:24-27 - "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

Oh, just a bit about "do as I teach you, and you'll be fine; if you don't, you'll pay." Hardly much of an adherence to doctrine at all, really.

Just goes to show the religious will make their god say whatever they want it to say.

[stone space]

5. What do these Bible verses mean to you?

How do you try to incorporate then into your life and give them meaning?

[trotsky]

6. They are a response to the claims made by the author of the piece.

Thanks for responding! I hope you enjoyed your break from DU!

[stone space]

7. But what do they mean to you?

Do they help to enrich your life in some way?

How do they speak to you?

My real break isn't until next week, I'm afraid. I can't wait! Only 4 more days!

[trotsky]

8. They are a response to the claims made by the author of the piece.

That's what they mean to me!

I'm glad you had a nice break from DU and that soon you will have one of your own choosing!

[stone space]

9. I'm assuming that they are irrelevant, since...

...you don't seem to have any idea what they mean.

I don't either, so it looks like we are both in the same boat here.

[trotsky]

10. Your assumption is wrong.

We are not in the same boat, and likely never will be.

Thanks for responding and again, welcome back!

[stone space]

11. Then why don't you tell me what they mean to you?

Usually, when serious and thoughtful people have a particular Bible quote that they find meaningful and which speaks to them deeply, they are willing to give me something more to go on.

Of course, sometimes people just throw out multiple Bible quotes without much thought and without meaning. That happens, too.

I generally don't take such folks very seriously. Too superficial for my tastes.

[trotsky]

12. I did. Twice.

First take a look at what the author claimed about Jesus and doctrine.

Then take a look at the quotes from the bible I provided. In particular, what they have to do with doctrine (keeping in mind the definition of doctrine that I also provided).

If you need more help, just let me know! Glad you are back!

[stone space]

13. It appears that you are a Biblical literalist who believes that the...

...Bible quotes that you toss around are self-explanatory.

They aren't to me, even if they are to Biblical literalists.

And since you are unable to provide meaning, I give up.

Have a nice day.

[trotsky]

15. Once again you're wrong.

That's unfortunate. Better luck next time!

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. The OP is about biblical claims of Jesus's actions, and #2 was quotes; biblical literalists too?

Why is someone who responds to an OP about Jesus and doctrine, which bases its claims by taking as true what the bible says about Jesus, a 'biblical literalist' for quoting a few more things about Jesus and doctrine from the bible?

[stone space]

17. Quoting a few more things?

quoting a few more things about Jesus and doctrine from the bible?

I reread the article and couldn't find any Bible quotes.

Where does this "quoting a few more things" come from?

A few more than what?

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. The OP is about what the gospels claim Jesus did

If you want to be pedantic, the OP was paraphrasing the bible, while trotsky was quoting it (which is, of course, more precise).

Now I've answered your question, will you answer the one I asked you first: are the article writer, or the thread starter, or author of reply #2, 'biblical literalists'?

[stone space]

19. I'm an atheist. What do you expect me to do with...

...random uninterpreted Bible quotes?

They don't mean anything to me.

If you have some particular Bible quotes that really mean something to you, and which speak to you deeply, then I'm willing to listen.

But when Biblical literalists just throw Bible quotes around mindlessly without any explanation of what it means in your life, my eyes just glaze over.

Sorry, but I've dealt with fundamentalists and literalists before.

I just find them annoying.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. Here's the meaning: "the religious will make their god say whatever they want it to say"

trotsky said it in reply #1. For some reason, you're ignoring it. The article takes some things from the gospels, and uses them to say "Jesus didn't care about doctrine". trotsky showed that the same gospels quote Jesus as caring about doctrine.

"The religious will make their god say whatever they want it to say" is a very succinct explanation of a hell of a lot of religion.

Are you going to answer my question? Are Mick Mooney, cbayer or Ink Man biblical literalists according to you? Or is that a term you like to throw around mindlessly, and it just happened to hit trotsky and no-one else in the thread?

[stone space]

21. And how does this speak to you?

How do you apply it in your own life?

Here's the meaning: "the religious will make their god say whatever they want it to say"

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. Are you going to answer my question?

[stone space]

24. What question do you want answered?

22. Are you going to answer my question?

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. The one you've ignored 4 times now

You have managed to quote the question in #23, but you haven't tried answering it yet.

[stone space]

26. Two of the people you mentioned did not post Bible quotes.

And I addressed the third.

Now, are you going to answer my question in post #21?

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. No.

[stone space]

29. It would probably be better if you didn't...

...post Bible quotes to atheists (or other non-literalists) then, if you are unable or unwilling to explain them.

It really doesn't mean that much to us.

We just find the practice annoying.

[muriel_volestrangler]

31. I posted a quote from trotsky, not from the bible

and it was trotsky's quote you asked me about. I don't think it's necessary to comment on how something that a DUer says is going to affect my life before I agree with it.

[stone space]

27. OK, I went back and reread cbayers comment.

And while she did not post any Bible quotes herself, she did kind of piggy back on Ink Man's Bible quotes, by providing more context and meaning for the quotes.

I gather that she's eating with 225 other sinners on Thanksgiving.

What both ink man and cbayer did is precisely what trosqui is refusing to do.

Biblical literalists like trosqui don't provide any meaning for their Bible quotes. It's all syntax and no semantics.

Biblical literalism just isn't helpful for us atheists.

For us, the Bible verses don't have much meaning until somebody explains how the verses impact their lives. That's what gives the verses meaning.

[Goblinmonger]

30. How about you stop speaking for "us atheists."

Because I think there are a great deal of atheists here you don't speak for.

And (because I'm sure it's coming directed at me) your claim that there are atheists that are biblical literalists is just, well, ridiculous.

[stone space]

32. Please stop posting to me.

You know that I don't want to have anything to do with you since I asked you several times to stop using the N-word with me, and you refused to stop.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218133641#post77

I have nothing to say to people like you.

[Goblinmonger]

34. I'll respond to whomever I please on this public discussion board.

There is an ignore feature if your delicate sensibilities are threatened by anything I post.

[stone space]

35. Go away.

There is an ignore feature if your delicate sensibilities are threatened by anything I post.

And take your filthy mouth with you.

[Goblinmonger]

36. Again, there is an ignore button.

You aren't my dad or my mom. I'm 48; I'll deal with my filthy mouth on my own, thank you.

[Goblinmonger]

40. "filthy mouthed assholes"?

How wonderfully civil of you. The problem you are referring to was me using the word not as a racial epithet but in a completely academic manner as an example of something else that might be troubling to people. It was not me using it as you have consistently posted that I have.

And I have a couple black atheist friends that I call "my n*****" and they say the same to me. So, N is not representative.

[Goblinmonger]

37. Oh, and for those of you reading wondering about the N-word incident

The fun actually starts here and shows when and how I used it.

My post was alerted on and not hidden. I was forwarded the results.

[stone space]

39. Go away. (nt)

[Goblinmonger]

41. Use ignore. (nt)

[stone space]

43. Go away.

I'm not going to hide posts from others using a buggy ignore feature just because of one filthy mouthed racist asshole.

[Goblinmonger]

45. Ignore still works even when you are locked out of a thread.

[trotsky]

42. It's good that you linked to the truth and the full context.

Much like I've been accused of doing things I never have. Makes you wonder about some people and what their agendas are.

[rug]

46. In your case wonder has been replced by demonstration.

[rug]

44. The use of the word is not nearly as odious as your comparison.

[rug]

33. That's good advice. Maybe you and your compadres should stop using "we" when bashing.

[stone space]

23. Ink Man posted a couple of Bible quotes here.

Are Mick Mooney, cbayer or Ink Man biblical literalists according to you?

I gather that he's spending the holidays feeding and eating with sinners.

That made sense to me as an atheist. It helped me to understand the meaning of the particular Bible quotes that he posted.

[Ink Man]

2. Well said.

Mark 2:16-17.

16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Happy Thanksgiving to you all. I know I'll be feeding and eating with sinners on that day.

[cbayer]

3. Good passage.

I will be eating with about 225 other sinners on Thanksgiving.

I hope you have a wonderful day!

[AtheistCrusader]

4. I'll just cut to the chase, and not care about 'Jesus'.

[Silent3]

14. +1 n/t