Pope Bids Refugees to EU ‘Bienvenido’; Europe Says ‘Non’

[cbayer]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/30/pope-bids-refugees-to-eu-bienvenido-europe-says-non.html

Candida Moss

WE WERE STRANGERS, TOO
11.30.14

As Europe closes its shores to immigrants and refugees, the pope asks for welcome of the stranger fleeing war. Is Europe ready to listen?

Earlier this month the Vatican announced the installation of free showers for the homeless in public bathrooms in the city-state. Now it emerges that the Pope wants the rest of Europe to follow suit and provide political asylum and public services on a much grander scale.

In a speech to the European Parliament and Council of Europe, Pope Francis told Europeans that they have to stop being self-absorbed and open their borders to immigrants and refugees from war-torn regions. Never one to mince words, Francis described Europe as giving off the “general impression of weariness and aging” and—with chauvinistic rhetoric that assumes women are useful only when they procreate—he compared her to an elderly “grandmother, no longer fertile and vibrant.” So much for “respect your elders.”

Francis’s mild misogyny aside, the Catholic Church’s compassionate position on immigration is familiar to US Catholics and politicians. Conservative and progressive Catholic Bishops alike have rallied behind reforms to the immigration system.

more at link

[skepticscott]

1. Yes, it's very easy to be compassionate with other people's resources

If this were anything but another PR stunt, the pope would make the Vatican City a refuge to as many immigrants as it could hold. But you can be sure THEIR sovereign borders won't be flung wide open for any such purpose.

[stone space]

2. Cue anti-immigrant outrage.

While it might seem like a political issue, hospitality towards strangers has been a religious issue since the dawn of Western civilization. Generally, the foreigner is a class of person often aligned with other vulnerable populations like widows and orphans. The Bible explicitly and repeatedly calls for the construction of a system that protects and cares for these groups.

As President Obama noted in the speech that accompanied his executive order on immigration, Exodus 23-9 reads: “You shall not oppress a stranger, for you know the feelings of the stranger, having yourselves been strangers in Egypt.”

[trotsky]

3. Which, as you know, is also often supported using bible quotes and religious beliefs.

Yet another wash.

[stone space]

4. No, it's not a wash.

Yet another wash.

Some folks support immigrants, and the other folks bash immigrants.

If you think that's a wash, I can only assume that you aren't an immigrant and don't know any immigrants.

[trotsky]

5. LMAO

What's a wash is the use of religion on both sides, with which you just agreed.

I am making absolutely no statement whatsoever on the plight of immigrants, despite your desperate attempts to make it look as if I did.

[stone space]

6. I do not agree.

What's a wash is the use of religion on both sides, with which you just agreed.

There are plenty of atheists who bash immigrants.

Immigrant bashing is not restricted to religious folks.

You seem more obsessed with peoples' languages and cultures than you are with how they view and respond to important issues.

[trotsky]

7. And what you seem obsessed with...

is deliberately misrepresenting what someone said in order to bash them.

I'm not going to play your game. I will let my words speak for themselves and people can judge for themselves if you are engaged in honest discussion.

[cleanhippie]

8. Trotsky, it's called "trolling"

Obviously, you see that and are doing a great job of not allowing his childish attempts to bait you.

[Goblinmonger]

9. Somebody didn't like your post

I'll leave which juror I was as "anonymous"

On Mon Dec 1, 2014, 09:26 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Trotsky, it's called "trolling"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=166555

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling another member a troll is a personal attack. He just came into this pile on to attack this individual.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Dec 1, 2014, 09:42 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yay! Alert trolling!!
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The truth is an absolute defense to personal attacks. stone space certainly is engaging in trolling and his trollish activities are getting old. Calling trollish actions trollish is not against the rules. And it's a "pile" only because of what stone space contributed, not trotsky.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm on the fence here. Calling someone a troll, and saying someone is trolling, aren't really the same thing. Trolling is done by people other than just trolls. Legit posters can get into threads and troll them for one reason or another. But it was not an easy jury decision.

[cleanhippie]

10. An this is one of the main reasons I don't post much anymore.

It the same shit, different day in here. I see the same few characters doing the same old routine. It's fucking boring.

But when I see blatant bullshit being posted like what he has been posting since his return, occasionally I feel compelled to respond.

Glad to see reason prevailed in that alert. There is a difference between calling someone a troll (personal attack) and calling their actions trolling (not a personal attack).

[Warren Stupidity]

11. "There are plenty of atheists who bash immigrants. "

That might be true, however atheism, the lack of belief in deities says nothing at all about the issue of immigration. The lack of belief in deities is independent of the immigration issue.

On the other hand once you've walked into claiming that a religion's holy book(s) state a position on the immigration issue, the comparison with atheism is invalid. You might claim that a religion is morally superior to atheism *because* it has a specific position on immigration, but that argument is vulnerable to the counter claim that the religion holds the opposite position. As the holy books of just about all religions are vast tracts of mumbo-jumbo that can be subject to completely conflicting interpretations, in general any claims made about what a specific religion supports or does not support are weak at best.

[stone space]

12. You misunderstand my statement.

On the other hand once you've walked into claiming that a religion's holy book(s) state a position on the immigration issue, the comparison with atheism is invalid. You might claim that a religion is morally superior to atheism *because* it has a specific position on immigration, but that argument is vulnerable to the counter claim that the religion holds the opposite position.

I'm opposed to immigrant bashing by both religious folks and by atheists.

The comparison of religious immigrant bashers with atheist immigrant bashers is spot on.

There is nothing special about atheism that makes anti-immigrant atheists smell any better than anti-immigrant theists.