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Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:07 PM

 

This Small Town Just Voted in Favor of Religious Tyranny



There's religious intolerance, and then there's the reaction of a Georgia town to an Islamic group that wants to rent storefront space for a temporary mosque.

Matt Connolly
20 hours ago

The Kennesaw City Council voted 4-1 not to allow the mosque — even though the potential landlord had already agreed to the terms of the lease — in a move the religious group's attorney calls "a blatant attack on First Amendment rights."

The reason for the refusal to allow the Islamic group's rental was made clear outside the building where the vote was held, with Kennesaw citizens holding signs like "Ban Islam" and "Islam Wants No Peace," according to the Marietta Daily Journal.



How was this even up for a vote? The Islamic group, the Suffa Dawat Center at Kennesaw, applied for a 2,200-square-foot space in a local shopping center to use as a temporary mosque. The opposition came next, ostensibly couched in concerns over parking and zoning.

In the end, the group agreed to limit their occupancy to 80 people, build 40 extra parking spaces and take on a two-year lease. But it wasn't enough for the council, probably because much of the opposition wasn't exactly about zoning ordinances. In fact, according to the Marietta Daily Journal, a similar deal with a Pentecostal church was allowed without a single objection.

http://mic.com/articles/105874/this-small-town-just-voted-in-favor-of-religious-tyranny

http://mdjonline.com/view/full_story/26174225/article-Kennesaw-City-Council-votes-tonight-on-Islamic-prayer-center?instance=home_top_bullets#ixzz3KluFJP00

67 replies, 8079 views

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Arrow 67 replies Author Time Post
Reply This Small Town Just Voted in Favor of Religious Tyranny (Original post)
rug Dec 2014 OP
NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #1
rug Dec 2014 #4
cbayer Dec 2014 #7
merrily Dec 2014 #11
SamKnause Dec 2014 #14
merrily Dec 2014 #15
rurallib Dec 2014 #22
SamKnause Dec 2014 #33
d_r Dec 2014 #53
CurtEastPoint Dec 2014 #2
CurtEastPoint Dec 2014 #3
cbayer Dec 2014 #6
shenmue Dec 2014 #5
Downwinder Dec 2014 #8
merrily Dec 2014 #9
cbayer Dec 2014 #10
barbtries Dec 2014 #34
cbayer Dec 2014 #37
pinto Dec 2014 #52
Nay Dec 2014 #54
lunasun Dec 2014 #65
Cartoonist Dec 2014 #12
cbayer Dec 2014 #13
Cartoonist Dec 2014 #17
cbayer Dec 2014 #18
Cartoonist Dec 2014 #20
cbayer Dec 2014 #21
Cartoonist Dec 2014 #23
cbayer Dec 2014 #24
Android3.14 Dec 2014 #63
cbayer Dec 2014 #64
rug Dec 2014 #16
Cartoonist Dec 2014 #19
Lordquinton Dec 2014 #25
cbayer Dec 2014 #26
obxhead Dec 2014 #27
mb999 Dec 2014 #62
Old Codger Dec 2014 #28
Phlem Dec 2014 #29
Jim__ Dec 2014 #30
Enthusiast Dec 2014 #31
bluestateguy Dec 2014 #32
mountain grammy Dec 2014 #35
louis-t Dec 2014 #36
Albertoo Dec 2014 #38
Jim__ Dec 2014 #39
Albertoo Dec 2014 #41
Jim__ Dec 2014 #42
cbayer Dec 2014 #43
Albertoo Dec 2014 #45
cbayer Dec 2014 #48
Jim__ Dec 2014 #49
cbayer Dec 2014 #50
cbayer Dec 2014 #40
Albertoo Dec 2014 #44
cbayer Dec 2014 #46
rug Dec 2014 #47
daleanime Dec 2014 #51
StandingInLeftField Dec 2014 #55
cbayer Dec 2014 #57
TinkerTot55 Dec 2014 #56
cbayer Dec 2014 #58
TinkerTot55 Dec 2014 #60
cbayer Dec 2014 #61
armed_and_liberal Dec 2014 #67
sinkingfeeling Dec 2014 #59
lunasun Dec 2014 #66

Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:08 PM

1. If this isn't a case for Federal intervention, then I'm living in the wrong country.

 

What other lies was I told in school???

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:11 PM

4. The "Islam Wants No Peace" meme enables this horseshit.

 

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Response to rug (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:15 PM

7. It sure does, and when I see that phrase used sarcastically around here, it makes me nauseous.

It's ok to hate them, because it's about religion.

Disgusting.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:28 PM

11. How much time do you have?

In addition to all the lies you were told are all the truths that you should have been told, but weren't.

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Response to merrily (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:55 PM

14. Exactly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is heartbreaking finding out what has been hidden, but I still like knowing the truth no matter how terrible it is.

After getting over the initial shock and betrayal I became determined to learn all I can.

I have been doing research since 2008.

I am now mentoring my 41 year old niece on this journey of U.S. historical truth.

The internet is an awesome tool !!!!!!!!

She can view the actual documents, listen to lectures, read independent news sources, etc.

She just added the Democracy Now app to her cell phone.

Link TV is a treasure trove of knowledge and truth.

Have a great Sunday.


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Response to SamKnause (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:59 PM

15. Thank you. You as well.

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Response to SamKnause (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:01 PM

22. is there a website you would recommend that could

help retrain all of us? This would be a valuable service.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #22)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:49 PM

33. Democracy Now is a good starting point.

Their website is user friendly and completely archived. (February 1996 to the present)

http://www.democracynow.org/

It is easy to navigate.

They have interviews with so many people that I admire;

Matt Taibbi
Jeremy Scahill
Howard Zinn (deceased)
Noam Chomsky
Dr. Cornel West
Bill McKibben
John Pilger
Robert Greenwald
Glenn Greenwald
Michael Moore
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Josh Fox
Daniel Ellsberg
Greg Palast
Naomi Wolf
Naomi Kline
Tavis Smiley

I watch hundreds of documentaries, listen to lectures, read articles from all over the world, read actual historical documents, listen to interviews etc.

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Response to rurallib (Reply #22)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:55 AM

53. read the book

A peoples history of the united states by Zinn

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:08 PM

2. They are going to 'revisit' that issue. Idiots. They know they'll be sued to shit.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:11 PM

3. And BTW, it's not a small town. It's sizable, a suburb and prolly 100% Repube/Baptist.

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Response to CurtEastPoint (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:14 PM

6. Right, and only 30 miles outside of Atlanta.

Makes me sick.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:12 PM

5. Idiots

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:16 PM

8. Good to see that they are going to apply zoning and parking restrictions

to religious sites.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:19 PM

9. What, no pitchforks?

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:21 PM

10. Let's post as many images as we can find of these bigots.







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Response to cbayer (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:58 PM

34. kinda hurts to see the youth of so many of those protesting.

fruit of the dumbing down of america, i presume.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #34)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 04:18 PM

37. I know. It sure does look different than the protests of my youth.

So sad.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #34)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:47 AM

52. The protestors' apparent ages struck me as well.

Then the follow up crossed my mind - they learned this simplistic hate somewhere...

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Response to barbtries (Reply #34)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:46 AM

54. Yeah, it is. This is why when people say the youth will fix things because

they aren't racist/sexist/teabaggers, I doubt it.

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Response to Nay (Reply #54)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 08:03 PM

65. Me too . People think the hate will " die off" but what I see is that it has propagated quite well

with big families & the young ones all have plenty of friends looking to join the hate fests like this one

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:51 PM

12. It's all about the automobile.

If it's not parking, then it's increased traffic. Here's a story about a Jewish synagogue that just wanted to upgrade their facility. I made deliveries there. It amounted to no more than adding two small buildings and repaving the parking lot on land they owned. The whole campus still only occupied about 60% of the hillside and blended in with the environment.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/TIBURON-Synagogue-expansion-fight-gets-ugly-2486822.php

A neighborhood squabble over the proposed expansion of a synagogue in Tiburon has turned into a high-stakes battle over religious freedom.

"Over 200 households have signed petitions," said Karen Nygren of the Tiburon Neighborhood Coalition, a group formed to fight Kol Shofar's plans. "It's not just a little group that is against this. We feel this is purely a land-use issue. It has nothing to do with religion."

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 01:55 PM

13. Just to be clear, do you see this as a land-use issue or a religious issue?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 02:06 PM

17. Hard to say

The synagogue was already there. The final result was a very modern and clean campus that could have only raised property values in the neighborhood. I never attended any of the meetings or spoke with the opponents. Tiburon is a very very rich town. I think they worship money more than a Christian God.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 02:09 PM

18. Looks like the synagogue won. What about the one in this article?

Do you think this is a religious matter or a land use matter?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #18)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 02:15 PM

20. Asking a question twice

doesn't get you a different answer.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #20)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 02:19 PM

21. Not answering the question twice just reinforces your avoidance.

You still haven't addressed my question as to what you think is going on in Kennesaw, GA.

The Tiburon issue may have been a land issue, I don't know.

Do you think this one is? Avoiding the question a third time might lead one to assume the answer.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #21)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:10 PM

23. Be more specific next time

The GA one is good old Christianity at work. Nothing new there.

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #23)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:18 PM

24. No, it's good old bigotry at work. Nothing new there.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 02:07 PM

63. Fuckin' purity tests

 

Peddle this where they welcome the Thought Police.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #63)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 03:37 PM

64. Excuse me?

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 02:00 PM

16. And Eric Garner was all about enforcing the tax on cigarettes.

 

If you do not perceive the pretexts used by bigots who control governments, you are extraordinarily naive.

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Response to rug (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 02:12 PM

19. you are extraordinarily naive

You're using the word "you" colloquially, right? Or were you being mean to me?

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Response to Cartoonist (Reply #12)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:25 PM

25. Something like this happened locally

They built a mosque/convention center with vastly insufficient parking, the city counsel let it happen because they promised they would all carpool/take a bus or something so parking wouldn't be an issue ever. They took over a whole block of housing and were extremely misleading the whole time.

Just because religion in involved doesn't mean it's being opposed on religious grounds, of course no one was holding up "Ban islam" signs, so the reaction was a little more genuine.

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Response to Lordquinton (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:29 PM

26. Where did this happen?

I believe that something happen, but I would like to read for myself what actually happened.

Certainly there are cases where there are serious issues about land use and traffic, but one needs to look with a critical eye when muslims are being targeted in countries where bigotry against them is well established.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:33 PM

27. This is not the America I was taught to take pride in.

 

Fuck this town and its zealots. May their hell be real and they all rot in it.

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Response to obxhead (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 01:37 PM

62. This is the reich wing / kkk vision of "freedum"

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:34 PM

28. I would bet

 

That so called Christianity has killed as many or probably more and caused more wars that Islam.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:40 PM

29. Murica has spoken!

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:40 PM

30. I wonder how many of the 4 who voted against the mosque would insist that they are strongly ...

... for freedom of religion.

You know, freedom to be just like us.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:43 PM

31. More fucking idiots.

It's a plague!

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 03:45 PM

32. Pretty pasty-faced looking city council there

nt

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 04:11 PM

35. Take it to the Supreme Court, they'll rule for religious "freedom"

As long as the Nation of Islam can spread around the kind of money Hobby Lobby does.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 04:15 PM

36. Not sure if zoning varies from state to state but

in MI, churches have to have residential zoning. Strip mall is not residential, though they may have been going for a variance based on 'temporary' nature of the lease.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 04:43 PM

38. While a mosque isn't a risk of religious tyranny?

 

This Small Town Just Voted in Favor of Religious Tyranny


Here below a video by a British Muslim preacher, Abdur Raheem Green.

A leading Islam 'televangelist/telecuranist', he's on the list of the 100 most influential muslims.

And he clearly states: Islam is against Democracy.

When you watch this video, you should indeed be wary of the 'religious tyranny' you invoked..




PS/disclaimer: note to any muslim who might resent my comment,
to make things even,
I am agreeable to criticize any other religion of your choice.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 04:59 PM

39. Yes, it's called freedom of speech, and outlawing it is usually considered tyranny.

It's pretty elementary. In a democracy, you can speak out against democratic government. In the video, he does not advocate violence or the overthrow of the government. He is merely presenting an opinion.

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Response to Jim__ (Reply #39)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 05:15 PM

41. Greek tragedy: how far should democracy let its enemies go?

 

It's pretty elementary. In a democracy, you can speak out against democratic government.


It's an old, old debate: how much freedom should democracies grant to its enemies?

But you do appreciate the paradox of the problem, I'm sure:

Allowing antidemocrats to participate in a vote might result in the end of the process itself if they win.
Hitler was democratically elected in 1933, and that was the end of elections.

Example in kind: the sunnah states that on judgment day, all Jews will be killed (how do you kill people when it's everyone's last day is another intriguing question). That's hate speech to me. The word 'religion' should not be a magic incantation excusing all kind of sin.


I repeat, my point isn't restricted to Islam.
Teaching creationism should be discouraged. No tax breaks for churches dumbing down kids.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 05:25 PM

42. If free speech is outlawed, your democracy isn't worth much.

His talk doesn't come near to violating any rational limitation on speech that should be allowed. Are you advocating a democracy where people are not allowed to openly question whether there is a better form of government than democracy? I wouldn't want to live under any such government.

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Response to Jim__ (Reply #42)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 05:40 PM

43. Worse yet, I think he's advocating for not allowing this mosque to open.

Not sure what kind of democracy he wants, but it's not the same one I do.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #43)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 05:53 PM

45. I am for a democracy that defends itself

 

Right now, freedom of religion is a convenient free pass. If I say that on judgment day, all the citizens of South Dakota will be fried in Hell, I'm a nut. If I say that on judgment day, all the eskimos will be fried in Hell, I'm a racist. If I say that on judgment day, all the Jews will be fried in Hell, I'm a hard line Quranic preacher (not just at the fringes of Islam).

The French Revolution did not ban the Catholic Church, it just made all the clergy take an oath they would not fight the Republic. Modalities are open to discussion, there is probably a spectrum between harsh coercion (1793 was no picnic for the French clergy) and total free hate speech just because it's religion.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #45)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 06:00 PM

48. Freedom of religion is a convenient free pass? Should we toss the 1st amendment in

your defense of your sacred democracy?

You are a piece of work.

So, do you think the town is right to block this mosque? Do you stand with the protesters? Should we Ban Islam?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #43)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:11 AM

49. In the democracy he's advocating, his post would be outlawed. - n/t

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Response to Jim__ (Reply #49)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:20 AM

50. He seems to be an expert on just about everything, though.

Just ask him.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 05:04 PM

40. What does this single person have to do with the issue of this op?

Do you think they should prohibit the mosque from being opened here because of this individual?

BTW, he is listed as #85 on a 2010 list of influential muslims in the UK, and in the sub-category of education. This was a list put together by community vote.

What is a telecuranist? How did you find this 2011 video?

So, do you think that this kind of islamophobic post is ok because you would equally attack any other religion?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 05:46 PM

44. Gee, so many questions.

 

What is a telecuranist?

Since I made it clear by showing it as a rendition of a televangelist of Islam, I suppose you have another real question?

How did you find this 2011 video?

That's a fun question. Do you personally bookmark how you came to know each element of all the info you know? As an atheist, I'm interested in what religions are saying.

So, do you think that this kind of islamophobic post is ok because you would equally attack any other religion?

'islamophobic' is a particularly devious term, an emotional trick.
it is meant to shield the doctrine of Islam behind the flock of its faithful.
Like you rightly said, I attacked one religion (and am willing and able to attack others)
while islamophobia is a term which has been crafted to now mean attack on muslim people.
That definition of the word is a cheap trick which has been granted far too much currency.

Do you think they should prohibit the mosque from being opened here because of this individual?

Back to my previous answer to the other person who asked a question, it's the stuff Greek dramas are made of. Saint Just said 'No liberty for the enemies of Liberty', but he was himself part of a reign of Terror.

Human condition. Questions. Choices. Complexity..

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #44)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 05:58 PM

46. I still don't know what a telecuranist it.

A google search of the term comes up with exactly nothing. That's astoundingly unusual. Did you make it up? Does it have to do with the koran or quran or something?

It's not a emotional trick at all. The emotional trick is posting something inflammatory that has virtually nothing to do with the subject at hand in order to create a disturbance. There are other words for it, but I will stick with your term.

I am quite sure you are willing to attack any other religion and that you don't single out just this one.

In your mission to get people all rev'ed up for the 2016 Hillary campaign, be careful about offending that huge portion of the population who have a religious affiliation.

This is really not all that complex. Welcome to DU, and I don't mean that sincerely.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 7, 2014, 05:59 PM

47. He doesn't hold any government office to enforce his opinions.

 

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Response to rug (Original post)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 10:21 AM

51. Sad K&R....

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Response to rug (Original post)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:48 AM

55. In case some might not remember...

…Kennesaw is the Atlanta suburb that passed an ordinance declaring that all heads of households must own a firearm (with certain exceptions.)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/29/1295761/-It-s-the-law-in-Kennesaw-everyone-MUST-own-a-gun#

"Kennesaw, Georgia, has the most liberal gun laws in the United States, in a state with liberal gun laws.

Let's start with the actual ordinance that was passed by the city of Kennesaw in 1982:

(a) In order to provide for the emergency management of the city, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the city limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore.
(b)Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony.


An amendment to the gun ownership law grants exceptions to convicted felons, conscientious objectors and those who cannot afford a gun."

Full disclosure - I am a native Atlantan and have lived in the South for the majority of my life…..unfortunately.

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Response to StandingInLeftField (Reply #55)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 12:14 PM

57. This is the first I have ever heard of this. That's some crazy.

Well armed militia and all that. Yikes. How do they feel about armed Muslims?

I go to Atlanta about twice a year and I'm staying away from Kennesaw.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 11:48 AM

56. I had a lot of experience with Kennesaw, GA in the 1980's.......

because of friends who moved there from Central Florida.

Plain and simply, it's an area where the Klan is VERY strong.
And the area attracts like-minded people.

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Response to TinkerTot55 (Reply #56)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 12:15 PM

58. Why do you think there is a muslim population there?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #58)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 01:03 PM

60. More and more people are moving to bedroom communities near large cities....

...and commuting to work. Same with Kennesaw.
In the 1980's, I was told, " The n*****s around here know not to be out after dark in Kennesaw."
But as more and more people move to that "little" mountain community, it's bound to change....for the better!
It was a long time coming, and the change is terrific, but the racists may or may not have changed much.
Either that, or they have moved on to other towns.

Hopefully the hate they taught their children will change, too.

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Response to TinkerTot55 (Reply #60)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 01:07 PM

61. That is one sad place.

I give credit to those that are taking a stand, but I fear for their safety.

I hope that Kennesaw will change as diversity is introduced. At least there was one person on the city council who voted the right way. I haven't been able to find out about him, but perhaps he is lying low.

Unfortunately, there are lots of young people in the photos of the protests, which is not a good sign.

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Response to TinkerTot55 (Reply #56)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 09:37 PM

67. I had an aunt and uncle who lived there.

The worst fucking racists I ever knew. When I was 10 years on they took me to a KKK cross burning. When I married a Jew they never spoke to me again. My aunt was the worst of the two, I heard she died a long slow painful death. She deserved it.

Kennesaw also made the news some years ago when they enacted an ordinance requiring every household to be armed.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 12:21 PM

59. Sure hope they file a lawsuit against the council.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Mon Dec 8, 2014, 08:11 PM

66. probably because much of the opposition wasn't exactly about zoning ordinances- just so there is no

fantasy here, In fact, according to the Marietta Daily Journal, a similar deal with a Pentecostal church was allowed without a single objection.

My ? - who spends their evening holding a sign "Ban Islam" ?
Hate is a priority with these people

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