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trotsky

(49,533 posts)
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:45 AM Apr 2015

Even Progressive Catholic Leaders Can’t Keep Up With The Public Embrace Of LGBT Rights

Something's gotta give...

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/04/28/3651818/catholicisms-relationship-lgbt-rights-getting-super-awkward/

Take, for instance, Monday’s announcement that Bishop John C. Wester, of Salt Lake City, Utah, will replace retiring prelate Michael Sheehan as the Archbishop of Santa Fe, New Mexico, an archdiocese that claims around 320,000 Catholics. Although the appointment surprised few, Wester’s relatively even-handed position on LGBT issues did receive nominal coverage. Michael O’Loughlin, national reporter for the Catholic news publication Crux, called Wester a “Pope Francis Bishop,” a phrase similar to those used during the recent elevation Archbishop Blase Cupich, a moderate and so-called “American Pope Francis” who took over the post of a well-known opponent of LGBT rights in Chicago last year.

...

But while Wester and other new bishops aren’t waging Cordileone-stye campaigns against LGBT equality, they do generally share his conservative understandings of homosexuality, and are often called on to repeat that fact during ongoing debates over marriage equality. Wester, like Cupich, has publicly upheld the Catholic Church’s historic opposition to same-sex marriage on multiple occasions, and called Utah’s embrace of marriage equality in 2013 “an affront to an institution that is at once sacred and natural.” More importantly, while his support for the new Utah LGBT protections law has been echoed by moderate and conservative Catholics alike, many activists argue the compromise — although a major achievement for equality advocates in the Beehive state — is not an ideal model for the rest of the country. Its wide-ranging religious exemptions are a testament to diplomacy, but are really only commonplace in deeply-religious Utah, where many laws already have religious exemptions. If the same exemptions were instituted in many other states, it would generally would be a step backward for LGBT rights.


The problem with any PR campaign is that eventually, people will see through the lies.
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Even Progressive Catholic Leaders Can’t Keep Up With The Public Embrace Of LGBT Rights (Original Post) trotsky Apr 2015 OP
But despite the fact that religion is always late skepticscott Apr 2015 #1
Yes, what is it they say about those who don't learn from history? trotsky Apr 2015 #2
Predicted years back. AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #3
Not only the way religion used to behave skepticscott Apr 2015 #4
+1000 trotsky Apr 2015 #7
You won't find many progressive leaders among the bishops. rug Apr 2015 #5
They'd have to not believe their own doctrine... MellowDem Apr 2015 #6
There is no religious doctrine on civil law. rug Apr 2015 #8
I didn't say there was... MellowDem Apr 2015 #10
None of which gives it any authority on civil law. rug Apr 2015 #11
And it's still the view of the Catholic Church... MellowDem Apr 2015 #12
It makes it a wrong position. rug Apr 2015 #13
But not bigoted? MellowDem Apr 2015 #14
Not necessarily. rug Apr 2015 #15
I agree... MellowDem Apr 2015 #16
You mean ex-Fox News pr manager Greg Burke isn't a miracle worker either? beam me up scottie Apr 2015 #9
 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
1. But despite the fact that religion is always late
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:50 AM
Apr 2015

in supporting this kind of change, there will always be deluded, agenda-driven folks who try to give it credit for leading the way on every type of positive social reform.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
2. Yes, what is it they say about those who don't learn from history?
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:47 AM
Apr 2015

I'm sure it's far more pleasant to only think of religion as righting wrongs and uplifting people, but it is an extremely dishonest and harmful view.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
3. Predicted years back.
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:25 PM
Apr 2015
This evening we’ve already had your suggestion that God is only really a guru — a friend when you’re in need. I mean, he wouldn’t do anything like bugger around with Job to prove a point. Which, if I now tell you that must mean that that book is not the word of God, you’d say: Well, who ever believed that it was the word of God? Let me just tell you something: For hundreds and thousands of years, this kind of discussion would have been in most places impossible to have, or Sam and I would have been having it at the risk of our lives. Religion now comes to us in this smiling-face, ingratiating way, because it’s had to give so much ground, and because we know so much more. But you’ve no right to forget the way it behaved when it was strong, and when it really did believe that it had God on its side.
 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
4. Not only the way religion used to behave
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 12:28 PM
Apr 2015

But the way it would behave tomorrow if fundamentalists really had their way.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
7. +1000
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:24 PM
Apr 2015

And you might as well add on the end of that: "...and how it would go right back to behaving if given the opportunity."

Because we still see the same shit in areas where it has more power.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
5. You won't find many progressive leaders among the bishops.
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:08 PM
Apr 2015

But they are out there.

A fast-growing movement of American Catholics…is seeking to end the expulsion of Catholic employees who are publicly gay.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
6. They'd have to not believe their own doctrine...
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:17 PM
Apr 2015

To be progressive. The view of homosexuality held by the Catholic Churh is fundamentally bigoted.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
8. There is no religious doctrine on civil law.
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 03:41 PM
Apr 2015

One of the myriad errors in your understanding of religion.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
10. I didn't say there was...
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 10:56 PM
Apr 2015

One of your myriad, probably intentional, misreading errors. Maybe you should find out what your religion says?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Roman_Catholicism

Homosexuality is objectively disordered. About as bigoted as it gets. And your apologetics are pathetic, as are your constant resorts to ad hominem and deflection in defense of bigotry.

So, do you want to address how thinking homosexuality is disordered isn't bigotry?? Or will it be more name calling and snake and deflection?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
11. None of which gives it any authority on civil law.
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:09 PM
Apr 2015

BTW, that language was written in the Catechism around the time similar language was in the DSM.

http://www.madinamerica.com/2014/12/homosexuality-came-dsm/

Next time stick to one question mark. Blood pressure and all.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
15. Not necessarily.
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:25 PM
Apr 2015

You use that word like it's garlic for a vampire.

No, being wrong is not necessarily bigotry. There's more to it than that.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
16. I agree...
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 11:29 PM
Apr 2015

But I think this view of the Catholic Chirch fits the definition of bigoted very well. If you want to argue that not all Catholics are bigoted, that's another issue, and just relates to my first post in this thread, they aren't following Catholic doctrine.

If you think someone can think homosexuality is disordered and not be a bigot, explain away. I have little patience for putting it on god though, the old "I'm not a bigot, it's just that the God I worship is" isn't very convincing.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
9. You mean ex-Fox News pr manager Greg Burke isn't a miracle worker either?
Tue Apr 28, 2015, 06:35 PM
Apr 2015

Pity they spent all that money on pr campaigns instead of actually you know, changing the church.

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