The Irish Catholic church is changing its tune – soon the Vatican will too

[cbayer]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/27/catholic-church-ireland-vatican-gay-marriage

Joanna Moorhead

The gay marriage vote has forced Catholic leaders to face a simple reality: that a church without worshippers wouldn’t be a church at all

Wednesday 27 May 2015 09.28 EDT


Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s number two, said the gay marriage vote was a ‘defeat for humanity’. Photograph: Claudio Peri/EPA

At the start of this week it looked, briefly, as though there had been a rare outbreak of common sense in the Catholic church – an institution that has known very little of that (and a good deal worse) over recent years.

After the Irish vote on gay marriage, which saw 62% vote in favour of a change to the constitution to allow gay people to marry, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin said the church needed to take “a reality check” and “not move into denial”. The church, he said, had lost its connection with young people, and needed to work to reconnect with them.

This sounded interesting, even potentially exciting, to a liberal Catholic like me, who believes there are some things worth fighting for in our church, even if we do have to elbow our way through a lot of men in frilly cassocks to reach the treasures at its centre. But two days later, it seems business-as-usual has returned.

From Rome, Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s number two, says Ireland’s vote was “a defeat for humanity”, adding that he was “deeply saddened” by it, and that the answer for the church is to “strengthen its commitment to evangelization”.

more at link

[skepticscott]

1. More grasping at straws by "liberal" Catholics

So many of whom are caught in the silly quandary that they need desperately to be and be able to call themselves Catholics, while hating so much of what that implies. They don't have the moral courage to strike out on their own, so they cling vainly to the notion of "change from within", grasping at any straw that lets them rationalize their continued support of one of the most sexist and homophobic organizations in the world.

And here's the really funny part:

Of course, it’s still light years away from understanding what most of us believe, which is that truth and right are more likely to be found in common consensus than in autocratic dictatorship.

If you reject "autocratic dictatorship", then what do you need a fucking GOD for?? Other than to be able to convince yourself that you're all faithy?

[Yorktown]

2. Remarkably put.

[rug]

3. More bitter bullshit.

It's a very simple issue. The referendum demonstrated decisively that churches can not - and should not - dictate civil law.

The rest of your reaction can be duly trashed.

[AtheistCrusader]

11. Let us know when the wonder pope gets the message and

withdraws from political pronouncements, directives, lobbying, etc.

Be sure to hold your breath for it. Any moment now.

[rug]

18. Sure, send me a list of the "us" you speak for.

I'll be sure to let each of you know.

[AtheistCrusader]

19. You could jusT post it here. We'll all see it.

How's holding your breath going? Indigo yet?

[rug]

20. Not necessarily.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. ^ a wonderful act of self referential irony. ^

[rug]

17. ^ a typical act of talking about a poster instead of a post. ^

[MellowDem]

10. Seriously...

She laments having to deal with all the patriarchal bullshit to hang on to thr "good" parts. Guess what? You can have the "good" parts without associating with a bunch of bigoted assholes.

[gcomeau]

4. Eventually it would be nice if in the heads of all these "Liberal" religious folks...

... a light bulb went off and they realized that if they're constantly having to drag the church into line with more modern enlightened understandings of morality then what the heck do they need the church for in the first place besides to serve as a constant anchor around the neck of humanity as it tries to make progress?

Stop hoping the church will be dragged along a little more quickly and just cut the damn rope.

[trotsky]

5. Or perhaps even just loop around another church?

One that's already made some progress, like the Episcopalians?

Ah but that's horribly out-of-line, according to some, to even suggest to a believer that perhaps there is a church that better fits them and their values.

[gcomeau]

6. Well, as a less than ideal alternative I suppose.

The ideal one being figuring out they don't need any church, or belief in any magic deity...

[trotsky]

8. Oh, totally agree on that.

I think most people can do just fine morally on their own. If only they knew they could.

[nil desperandum]

7. Ireland

is already losing catholics who regularly attend church. The concept that it will be a church without followers is already 80% of the way to that goal.

In 1980 they had 90% attendance at mass, today only 1 out of 5 Irish catholics say they attend mass regularly. At this rate it will be 1 out of 10 in another 20-30 years, faster if the church refuses to accept the simple fact that their followers aren't doing what the hierarchy of the church demands. Contraception, gay marriage, child abuse the church has a history of ignoring the reality of the average "believer" who clearly doesn't believe the church's position is the correct one with respect to conducting oneself as a catholic.

2 out 3 Irish voters don't agree with the church's position on gay marriage that means the majority are no longer in line with the official position of the religion they claim as their own. Options are getting limited for the church, continue on into irrelevance or start considering that power no longer flows top down because the "faithful" aren't having it.

[cbayer]

9. And the same thing is happening in the US and other parts of the world.

I don't know how they are going to make it happen, but they are going to have to change.

[salimbag]

12. Change or die

Trust in evolution.

[Cartoonist]

14. the treasures at its centre

even if we do have to elbow our way through a lot of men in frilly cassocks
-
Guess what? You Don"t have to. You can reject them completely. Leave the church and take the creamy centre with you.

[cbayer]

15. Yes, anyone can do that if they choose.

[beam me up scottie]

16. Every time I see this headline I lmao.

Anyone who thinks the RCC will change it's position on lgbt people because they're worried about their image is delusional.

They've got a shiny new pope and a crack pr team who are doing their best to prove they LOVE the immoral sinners who threaten traditional families:

Speaking out against a proposed law to legalize same-sex marriage in Argentina, Bergoglio said, "At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

No photo op is going to convince me they're not a bunch of homophobic bigots. I've listened to their words and I know exactly what they're saying.