Religion
Related: About this forumIn Age of Science, Is Religion 'Harmful Superstition'?
In a nutshell, why are religion and science incompatible?
Theyre incompatible first of all, because they both compete to find truths about the universe. There are some fundamental truths about the universe that believers have to accept in order to be religious. Many Muslims see the Koran as literally true. To question any of that is to bring a death sentence on yourself. The reason why people are so concerned with harmonizing science and religion, as opposed to, say, science and architecture, or science and baseball, is because science and religion are competitors in the field of esoteric truths about the cosmos.
But we use different methods to ascertain whats true. Science has an exquisitely refined series of methods honed over 500 years to find out whats real and whats false. Richard Feynman gave the best definition of science I ever heard, Its a way to keep you from fooling yourself, because youre the easiest person to fool. Religion doesnt have a methodology to weed out whats false. In fact, its a way of fooling yourself. They have authority, revelation, dogma, and indoctrination as their methods and no way of proving their tenets false.
There are thousands and thousands of religions and all of them make incompatible claims about the universe. The reason that thats the case is because they dont have any way of testing those claims.
You call religion the most widespread and harmful form of superstition. Make your case.
One of the meanings of superstition in the Oxford English dictionary is a belief that is unfounded or irrational. Since I see all religious belief as unfounded and irrational, I consider religion to be superstition. Its certainly the most widespread form of superstition because the vast majority of people on Earth are believers. Other forms of superstition, like astrology, belief in UFOs or telekinesis, are nowhere near as widespread. And the damage that religion has done to humanity is far more than the damage that astrology or the belief in Bigfoot has done. This is the problem with ISIS and other Islamist organizations. It used to be the problem with Christianity, as well. People get killed because they dont share your beliefs.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/05/150531-religion-science-faith-healing-atheism-people-ngbooktalk/
Iggo
(47,534 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)purpose in the past. I'm not sure I fully buy into it, but it has some validity. Civilization has evolved past that point.
Iggo
(47,534 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)not useful for keeping people ignorant.
Iggo
(47,534 posts)But I think we'd've progressed anyway.
Major Nikon
(36,818 posts)...unless you consider an alternative where organized religion didn't exist, which would be quite difficult.
It's important to remember that organized religion isn't just a benevolent entity. For most of recorded history it was synonymous with government and was used as a tool to control the masses. Were it not for organized religion, people would have undoubtedly formed secular collective organizations, and without the authoritative control that organized religion offered, it's not hard to imagine they would have been more accountable to the people.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)monks employed by the church for centuries to dutifully transcribe the surviving ancient texts from moldering volumes to new ones, year after year, decade after decade. Was the church also at least partially responsible for holding back a re-emergence of vital civilization in western europe at the same time? Yup. I guess it is a balancing act as to net negative or net positive. The initial slow collapse of the early medieval period was not the fault of the church, it was the fault of the roman empire's inability to adapt to change. The church itself at least maintained the organizational structure (the dioceses) the empire left behind. And within that wreckage eventually a revitalized civilization emerged.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)it just took a long time to come up with something better.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)As long as you cling to to supernatural beliefs, you will not be truly free.
It is my sincere hope that you realize that some day.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I am free to believe what i want thank you.
Your concern is oh so touching.
How would you like if i said i hope you get Jesus in your life someday? Doubt you would like it.
bvf
(6,604 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)It doesn't change anything.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)my daughter and her middle school friends, IIRC.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Nowhere Man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
rug
(82,333 posts)Day after day, alone on the hill
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him
They can see that he's just a fool
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)We can call it "Dueling Beatles Lyrics".
phil89
(1,043 posts)are harmless?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)I see a helluva argument the other way.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)So many bits of the Bible and Quran are irrational.
safeinOhio
(32,632 posts)Well, then you are saying that many bits of the Bible and Quran are rational. I would have to agree with both statements. However, I don't think it is worth going to war over deciding which bits are or are not. For me the problem(insanity) is at the extremes of both sides. That may be why I like the groups that the author points out accept members that do and do not think alike.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Like most books.
But why should the quran and bible with their numerous mistakes and frequent violence be considered books of guidance?
Walt Disney cartoons make more sense as morality guides than the bronze age 'holy' books.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Israel and Judah. Anyone making the argument "yeah but it isn't 100% looney toons" ought to reflect on what that argument implies about an allegedly sacred text that purports to represent the words of a god.
edhopper
(33,465 posts)Woman in Saudi Arabia say the same thing?
What about States here that have legalized discrimination against gay people or eliminated
women's reproductive rights?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)You would probably feel sympathy for them, much like I feel it for you, and like you, they do not recognize of appreciate that there is anything negative to feel sympathy for.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I don't know the specifics, but you've alluded to some serious shit that has gone down in your life, and that sucks.
But more generally speaking, yes. I feel bad for people who hold out hope for anything beyond this life. But in the end you won't be disappointed, so there's that I guess.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I've never considered the two to be incompatible. Both seek truth (although religions that claim to already possess "the only truth" are ridiculously arrogant).
Let's go by the five most important answers a good journalist goes after: Who, what, where, how, why, and when. Science seeks the what, where, how, and when, based on evidence. Religions seek the who and why, for which evidence is lacking, and so are "faith based," usually depending on a mythology developed over time by many people.
Religious people can believe their versions of who and why as much as they like, as far as I'm concerned. Like Thomas Jefferson said, "...it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg" (Notes on Virginia, 1782).
When religionists start denying scientific evidence for what, where, how, and when - and especially when they try to impose those beliefs on others (I'm looking at you, fundies of all stripes) - then we have problems.
At least, that's the way I've always viewed the matter.
On edit: I highly recommend the novel, Blasphemy, by Douglas Preston. It deals fascinatingly with just this issue.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)"...it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg"
It does depend on whether said religion prescribes the faithful to break your leg or not.
safeinOhio
(32,632 posts)Ayn Rand justifies her free market greed with her atheist anti-altruism. To justify her ideology she said "Religion is the first enemy of the ability to think and faith is the worst curse of mankind. It is the greatest disease of mankind" (Rand, 1999). Now the world, and even the religious have adopted her philosophy of radical free markets that she herself justifies with her atheism. I would think these ideas are doing more to destroy the world and bring about fascism in our time than my my neighbor that says there are 20 gods.
She denies that altruism has been an adaptive force that has been a positive one for mankind.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Religion is just one way to be wrong.
Nazism is another. Stalinism. Ayn Randism another.
safeinOhio
(32,632 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Atheism is just saying: I see no reason, no proof to believe in gods.
From there on, you have tons of different atheists with lots of different ideas and styles.
If you call a 'radical atheist' someone who has made it his calling to aggressively attack believers, let's just call that person someone with aggressivity issues unresolved.
But someone calmly challenging the beliefs of theists is not 'radical', he's consistent.
safeinOhio
(32,632 posts)angry and challenging every opposing view. Refusing to see any good in the other and looking at a single issue in black and white terms.
There can be a radical atheism as well as fundamentalistic atheism, in my opinion, but I leave it to you to disagree with my observations.
By the way, I use Ayn Rand of an example of dangerous radical atheism.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)and fit into the same boxes, every single time. Atheism is just like religion, etc.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)If you're illiterate and you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
What, pray tell, is a "fundamentalist atheist"? Someone who adheres to the fundamentals of atheism? As there is but one atheist fundamental -- the lack of belief in a deity -- I struggle to envision what a non-fundamentalist atheist would be. A person who kinda-sorta doesn't believe in God?
Ayn Rand was an atheist. Ayn Rand was also an anarcho-capitalist. You might consider her more atrocious beliefs might have a tad more to do with the latter than the former.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)can't the atheists just shut up already? amirite?
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)how does she support it? There isn't a "god says so" here, no mysterious ways to justify harming people here. Her trying to justify her views with atheism falls apart because there is no connection, just as your point falls apart by trying to make atheism into a religion to prove your point.
LostOne4Ever
(9,286 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]No matter how hard people try to do otherwise, it is not possible to derive a "ought" statement out of an "is" statement.
Hume's Guillotine. [/font]
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Just because people are selfish, doesn't mean people should be selfish. QED.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]See the paragraph after the Jefferson quote.
I'm also pretty sure Jefferson would have said the 18th Century equivalent of "No duh!" were your point brought up to him.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)To the question if violent religions should be restrained?
I never read Jefferson was a masochist.
silverweb
(16,402 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Jefferson clearly stated that he didn't care what people believed in terms of their faith or lack of faith in god(s) because it did no harm to him (or others). There is also a big difference between personal faith and being subject to the authoritian hierarchy of an organized religion, and I believe he was referring to the former in the statement in question.
I do not believe he would extend tolerance to any religion that preached and/or practiced violence against nonbelievers in the present (not purely based on the historical past, i.e., Crusades, etc). Things he said and did regarding the separation or "wall" between church and state made that quite clear.
Period. Full stop.
I apologize if I wasn't clear before and am not interested in pursuing this further, so have a nice evening.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)I perfectly understand Jefferson's distinction which you quote: private belief vs acts.
I am pointing out that Jefferson's distinction fails IMHO when the belief demands violence.
The Mayan cult required a human sacrifice every morning to make the sun rise.
When religions have dangerous edicts, belief in them is a latent danger.
And waiting for latent dangers to become patent is not the most prudent policy.
libodem
(19,288 posts)In V&M about 'C' Street and the evangelical movement of of political zealots to Africa and Europe exporting nonsense about the Second Coming as a foregone conclusion. In that context, yes. And, its expensive to tax payers,too. And it's crazy scammy bullshit.
Plus, those Dominuist loons that Palin and Cruise belong to. That is also a takeover of everything by believers from government to entertainment, I wonder if they are behind the movement to destroy education, because of it?
I belive they would see our whole secular education system destroyed because Religious Zealots feel it competes with, Creation. Yeah, it's dangerous.
Also the demand that women are subjugated to fit the family values model of 2nd class status, in everything, become, you know, "the rib", part of creation.
As you know men have been giving birth to humanity, ever since, right? All life flows from the loins of men and from God the Father. Manhood trumps everything because women were somehow actually born of a man. Also when you get right down to it the immaculate conception, besides being unbelievable, is an unconsented forcible rape of a child under 18.
If Science behaved toward Religion the way Religion challenges Science, there would be huge cries of persecution and malice, in subjects like evolution and geophysical carbon dating especially.
Yeah, its dangerous to one's intellect. It's probably just as emotionally crippling but no one needs another essay out of my philosophical ass, today.
No offense to anyone who finds comfort in the doctrine and dictates of the 'word'. Have at it, Hoss.
safeinOhio
(32,632 posts)and has some interesting views on reality. Granted some of Taoist rulers were not the best, but as for just reading the Tao Te Ching, I find some very useful ideas. I also respect Quakers for the most part.
I embrace Buddhist philosophy. Right living makes sense to me.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It illustrates the dangers of what I call, vertical proselytizing faith, where you enforce your beliefs of religion on your kids when theyre too young to know otherwise. This religion is Christian Science, in which disease is seen as having spiritual causes. Christian Scientists reject science-based medicine in favor of prayer and spiritual healing.
Ashley King was the daughter of two well-off Christian Scientists in Arizona. Not the toothless Bible thumpers you think of when you think of fundamentalists. Ashley developed a lump on her leg, which turned out to be bone cancer. Instead of taking her to a doctor, they took her out of school and tried to treat her with prayer. The lump eventually got to be as big as a watermelon. Child services finally took her away from her parents.
Ashley went to the hospital and the doctor said, Its too late. This tumors too big. But we can give her some time by amputating her leg. Her parents refused and stopped her being given pain-killing medicine.
Instead, they put her in a Christian Science sanatorium, which, by the way, is subsidized by the U.S. government. Her medicine consisted of giving her water and prayer. She started shrieking and crying out. The thing was incredibly painful. But all they did was pray. Finally, she died.
Her parents were prosecuted and convicted, but they were only given unsupervised probation. In 43 out of 50 American states, faith healing that harms your children is not a civil or criminal problem. Thousands of kids have died through Christian Science and the Followers of Christ in Oregon and Idaho. There are graveyards filled with dead kids who were given faith healing.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)they get away with it because, religion.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Because the tolerant thing to do is let them keep abusing and killing kids.
840high
(17,196 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Some folks can't handle a light shone on the dark corners of religion.
rug
(82,333 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Are book interviews some sort of sin now?
rug
(82,333 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Is your next comment about bowel movements?
Not that it would not be an improvement.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Putting on a stupid face, however, is.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)of course hawking a book is a bodily function. You should think your responses through first. You frequently get confused by your own arguments.
rug
(82,333 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)One is trying to derail the thread now.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)When suddenly someone that happens to have written a book jnvalidates everything they have to say.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Maybe Warren should have posted a right wing hit piece and gotten it hidden.
That was fun.
rug
(82,333 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Very dangerous.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Not just a subject line and not even a nt to signify your post isn't worth clicking on.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)We have some very witty posters here.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)So light never reaches those dark recesses.
Faith blocks photons.
bvf
(6,604 posts)I like that.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Doubt he will say yes but you never know.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Others are carrying the Pastafarian torch now.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)And I noted some were 'mod-reporting' me for anything. Even for breaches of unwritten rules.
I especially loved the clown who reported me on grounds I would have 'trolled' an administrator
My only interactions with the administrator Skinner were:
to request -at your suggestion- in 'AtA' the FSM Church to be included in Interfaith
to request -at someone's suggestion- in general' the creation of a FSM forum,
with a link proving it was the established way of doing this type of thing at DU
So, no, my faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is intact.
But my faith in the good faith of Democrats discussing religion is not so intact.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)But to be honest i doubt they will get that room.
For reasons he already stated and i think the room might be used to attack other DUers.
I see some wants to exclude mainstream religions from the room.
that is really telling to me.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)In the name of religion. And religion teaches love, right?
Except towards those who disagree with it, I suppose.
Childish. And a neat way to demonstrate religion doesn't teach morality.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Some saw skinners response to you and thought you were pushing too far.
I would not have voted to hide it.
but i would also say no to the room.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)I also loved the dishonesty of another report.
In a first post, I called someone a liar because he was lying about what I had said. No report.
Because in that first post, I proved the lie.
Then the liar reposted, and I tried to close the debate by saying I didn't engage liars.
That second post -difficult to interpret without the context of the first post- got reported.
All I'm saying is that that person which reported the second post is a low weasel.
And from the way the report was formulated, I've got a pretty good idea of who it was.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)I come to debate forums to debate.
I try to do it as nicely as possible, with the occasional one-liner because they are fun.
If someone disagrees and wants to tack me head on, welcome.
Behind the back playing with the hide report system is for weasels, IMHO.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)If the system is built so that it's the liar that gets away,
and the one exposing the lie who gets 'hidden',
then the system is corrupt.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)But whether they are questionable or not they are still hidden and 5 hides means a suspension of posting privileges.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)I just have to seneeze to get that now.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Anyway, the www is wide, and I'll take vacations elsewhere.
Besides, I'd bet on HRC elected end 2016 , so 'general' is a bit lame.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)A warning abut rules (contradicting the link I had posted, but nvm) would have been enough.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts).. who thinks discussions about issues can be 'won' by reporting people to death.
LostOne4Ever
(9,286 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]That I specifically said "against" and italicized it.
Buccaneers from mainstream religions that wish to support his noodliness are more than welcome and I shall personally have a tankard of Capt'n Morgan's finest opened up for dem landlubbers.[/font]
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)question it looks like the answer is no.
LostOne4Ever
(9,286 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal] Capt'n Long John Silver started out as a mere cook.
Great plans require patience...and rum. Lots and lots of rum.[/font]
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)LostOne4Ever
(9,286 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]After our ship leaves her port be sure to come by me quarters. I will have me Chef, Black Leg Sanji, serve you up some of Long John Silver's own Pasta Primavera!
[center][/center]
[/font]
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Shows dedication to our Church.
May your carbonara always be fresh.
LostOne4Ever
(9,286 posts)[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Cause the good Ship FSM be set to sail!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12597997[/font]
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Sorry for breaking the rules, but your group would not exist if it weren't for A&A stepping up and getting the petetion filled and sent. This is the gratitude you have?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Try again.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)You weren't, none of the people who enjoy the group (and use it to exclude and attack other DUers) were part of it. You weren't around to form the prayer group and you use it to exclude and attack other DUers.
If you showed some Christian fellowship instead of weilding your privilege like a club things would be nicer around here.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)But i think the owner of this site said it all.
http://election.democraticunderground.com/12597940#post1
"You aren't actually believers in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's a joke"
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)as is your lack of compassion.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)He said it in the context of the interfaith group. Much like the pope's "who am i to judge" about homosexuals was in the context of the priesthood. Removing the context makes the statement moot.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)So much for Christian values. IGGMFY is your new creed it seems.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I guess that means no group.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Disgusting.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)posts?
They will be alerted on and hidden. It has already happened in the prayer circle.
I could let them in but their posts will likely get hidden.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)your enemies would get more hides. I don't think you've thought this through.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)i locked you one op in the prayer circle so you would not get your post hidden. I could have left it open to get alerted on.
Your hide a few days later made me ban you from the room.
Contrary to popular opinion I am not looking for hides against you or your friends.
And while i don't consider you a friend i don't see you as an enemy.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)If you actually believe that then you should be on board wi their own group.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Sorry your crusade was a failure.
You can probably even post there...if you watch your tone and
pray correctly.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I never said to the owner he should not allow it.
And no i will not be joining it.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)You spoke with authority and arrogance on the subject as if the decision was up to you or had knowledge that no one else was privy to.
Go back and read your posts. Seriously.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)But most knew that already.
Which reminds me, I was reading up on the 7 Deadly Sins the other day, with emphasis on Envy and Pride (and perhaps Wrath). Seems more than coincidental, wouldn't you agree?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Or less so?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I thought he would not set it up. I was wrong.
i disagree with him but it is his site.
You enjoy the new room.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Jesus is smiling today, I'm sure.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)or a proclamation.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Why would there be hidden posts?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)2 fsm posts were hidden in the prayer circle.
One before i was host.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)the intolerant ones should be gone, not the ones seeking comfort and inclusion. Just proves my point about actual religious tolerance here.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)I think we both know who was offended by the Pastafarians. Tell the group, what about them scares you do much?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Not a damn thing.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)But remember: "Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others."
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Obviously you don't care for me and you have let me know with not so good results.
If you have a problem with me i invite you to use ignore.
Rob H.
(5,349 posts)There are older questions in ATA that haven't been answered, either. I hate to think that he would just completely blow off a lot of the people who're still waiting and let their questions remain unanswered.
Edit: I've never asked anything in the ATA forum, so I don't know how they usually handle things there.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)The older questions that don't get answered never get answered.
Heddi
(18,312 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)libodem
(19,288 posts)And this is a good read. I recommend it. It makes a lot of sense.
I still believe in a place for religious observation. I believe it is important to honor human milestones within an adopted community. That is important to me and a reason to congregate. There is something about pomp and circumstance and the ritual. I like all that. I like the inside of a beautiful Catholic Church. I experience the uplift of the stained glass and high ceilings. I like the response I feel to choir music. I like the captivity of an uplifting sermon and the feeling of being part of a collective consciousness for a moment. I get the spiritual high phenomenon. I might go to a UU sometime.
I will never be religious but it it suits anyone else I'm totally tolerant. Well, then there are the poor kids....
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)jury system. Don't you go and try and actually engage in discourse.
libodem
(19,288 posts)AnnieBW
(10,409 posts)Just science-denying, bigoted, misogynistic religions.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)I once attended a sermon where some preacher was saying that science attempts to trump the bible and used Genesis to prove science wrong.
First and last time I listened to that moron.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)And i mean follow in multiple meanings.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)He was talking to Abraham, not us. But hey, sex is good so...
LostOne4Ever
(9,286 posts)[center][/center]
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)but not at the same time.
longship
(40,416 posts)d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)complete with Nutella filling and strawberries! I'm not gay but that was some really good penis cake!
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)I wonder what Isaac felt about his dad's new god.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)Then had two sons, one of which who fucked over his brother. And God was cool with it. Seems like God loves his drama.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Somehow everyone loving god even after he tries to kill em/kills their loved ones/ruins their life doesn't really add up.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)We don't even know what Jesus did when he was a teenager. We don't know if he did sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll or if he was saving the world one cat off a tree at a time.
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...to list the ones that don't?
AnnieBW
(10,409 posts)We believe in the concept of pantheism - the Deity (or Deities) are inherent in everything. No preachers, imams, or Holy Books. We do have priests and priestesses, but they are mostly self-defined.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)critical thinking on them is, ultimately, harmful. In turns credulity into a virtue.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)And sometimes it's neutral, and sometimes (e.g. enabling faith) it can be prosocial and helpful.
struggle4progress
(118,211 posts)I expect his writings on Drosophila are more interesting and original
Jim__
(14,058 posts)A brief excerpt from a column on Patheos:
He said he hoped a lot of us would have careers in science, she said. She didnt see anything funny in that. She was remembering a lesson that had impressed her. She was repeating it gropingly, dutifully. He said, the trouble with the world was
...
The trouble with the world was, she continued hesitatingly, that people were still superstitious instead of scientific. He said if everybody would study science more, there wouldnt be all the trouble there was.
He said science was going to discover the basic secret of life someday, the bartender put in. He scratched his head and frowned. Didnt I read in the paper the other day where theyd finally found out what it was?
The column has a little bit more in the excerpt from Cat's Cradle. It's worth reading.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Science furthers our understanding of the physical world, but it takes ethics to apply that understanding in a way that maximizes happiness for the greatest possible number of people.
That said, I don't think too many people would actually disagree there... except maybe Lawrence Krauss.
longship
(40,416 posts)Certainly one of the best novels of the 20th century. And poking at religion was a Vonnegut speciality. That, plus a perverse sense of humor.
Anyway, anybody who could dream up Bokononism has my respect. (On second thought, that reminds me too much about L. Drunkard Hubbard.)
When will DU have a church of Bokononism group? Surely that is a sad omission here.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Live by the foma that make you brave and kind and healthy and happy.
Although I suggest not offering any Bokonon prayers in the Prayer Circle as they are quite touchy about what religions get to pray there.
longship
(40,416 posts)Although no Bokononist would do such a thing.
Or, maybe one should just thumb ones nose to the universe. Yup! That's it.
My regards.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)I fall asleep with a middle finger to the sky incase I don't wake in the morning. Fortunately we have no upstairs neighbors.
Jim__
(14,058 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Freelancer
(2,107 posts)Religion is like a really big rock. It can be very useful. You can climb on top of it in a flood. You can huddle against it in a storm, cool yourself in its shade. It can be a landmark of your clan, and so on. The thing about really big rocks, though, is that they don't usually go anywhere. So, attaching yourself to one is an exercise in not going anywhere, which can be a worthy intention, I suppose -- just not for everyone.
Non-believers want believers to understand that no one is trying to take away your rock. We just feel compelled, from time to time, to point out that you have the option to walk away, even out of sight of the rock, and still be perfectly alright. It will be there when you get back.
That's all
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Response to Yorktown (Reply #198)
Freelancer This message was self-deleted by its author.
longship
(40,416 posts)Consider the GOP, a wholly religious cabal. I can hardly wait for the GOP Presidential Debates where they all trip over themselves to prove themselves "most godly".
Too bad there aren't any Scientologists or Bokononists amongst them... At least not yet. Sadly, Romney is apparently not running this time, so we don't get to make sacred underwear jokes.
Please! Let a GOP Scientologist run for POTUS! And please, let it be Tom Cruise! The clown car would then be perfect.
BTW, a great OP, and a great thread.
R&K
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)I know several religious believers who are scientists. They deal with the inconsistencies by shrugging them off. Religion involves faith, not proof, so religious teachings are accepted on faith alone. There is no problem as long as you accept that religion is for the purpose of saving your soul, telling you how to worship your God, etc. The conflict comes when some religious leader tells you to kill the unfaithful, pass laws against abortion, harass gay people, etc.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Where it does your religious scientist either compartmentalizes his religion, walling it off from the conflict, or compartmentalizes his scientific reasoning, walling it off from the conflict. In either case one or the other or both are compromised.