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Related: About this forumDoing Something About State Promotion of Religion
I am an atheist. I think it would be great if there were more atheists, but I really don't care a great deal about trying to persuade anybody to give up their superstitions. Many believers have told me that they need their religious beliefs and cannot imagine life without them. I tend to think that they are quite a bit stronger than they realize, but I'll take them at their word. Atheism does not have to be for everybody. I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with are the widespread efforts by many religious believers to have the state promote their religious beliefs.
We are all familiar with the overt efforts by religious conservatives to enter our bedrooms and impose their antiquated morality on us. They seek to restrict reproductive freedom while simultaneously opposing contraception and sex education. They want to tell adults who they can and cannot marry. They advocate censorship and would love to punish blasphemy. They even have the nerve to prohibit us from buying or selling alcohol on Sundays. Most atheists and many religious moderates recognize these as overreaches of the sort that turn many people off to religion. Why? Because they involve restricting someone's freedom on questionable grounds.
What only atheists and a small number of religious liberals seem to recognize are the far more frequent and much subtler ways the state promotes religion. Here in the bible belt, one can find Christian flags in government buildings, nativity scenes in capitol buildings, sectarian prayers offered at virtually any government function. I have personally witnessed prayers referencing Jesus multiple times at the commencement ceremonies of a state university. I have been in meetings with high-ranking university administrators that were opened with sectarian prayers. I have heard reports of sectarian prayers during mandatory jury selection, fierce religious bullying at public schools (sometimes including teachers), and religiously-motivated vandalism (indicated by notes left at the scene).
I understand that some atheists some of these examples as trivial, advising me to "pick your battles." In my youth, I would have eagerly heeded this advice out of a combination of fear and a desire to fit in. These days, not so much. I'm tired of holding my tongue. I realize that through my silence, I have become part of the problem.
As I have started to find my voice, I've learned something extremely valuable: some of my complaints have been effective. That's right, some of my complaints have actually resulted in positive change. Imagine that! And nearly every time, the initial response has been the same, "Oh, I had no idea. Nobody has ever complained before." So before we complain, maybe we should try complaining.
http://www.atheistrev.com/2012/04/doing-something-about-state-promotion.html
We are all familiar with the overt efforts by religious conservatives to enter our bedrooms and impose their antiquated morality on us. They seek to restrict reproductive freedom while simultaneously opposing contraception and sex education. They want to tell adults who they can and cannot marry. They advocate censorship and would love to punish blasphemy. They even have the nerve to prohibit us from buying or selling alcohol on Sundays. Most atheists and many religious moderates recognize these as overreaches of the sort that turn many people off to religion. Why? Because they involve restricting someone's freedom on questionable grounds.
What only atheists and a small number of religious liberals seem to recognize are the far more frequent and much subtler ways the state promotes religion. Here in the bible belt, one can find Christian flags in government buildings, nativity scenes in capitol buildings, sectarian prayers offered at virtually any government function. I have personally witnessed prayers referencing Jesus multiple times at the commencement ceremonies of a state university. I have been in meetings with high-ranking university administrators that were opened with sectarian prayers. I have heard reports of sectarian prayers during mandatory jury selection, fierce religious bullying at public schools (sometimes including teachers), and religiously-motivated vandalism (indicated by notes left at the scene).
I understand that some atheists some of these examples as trivial, advising me to "pick your battles." In my youth, I would have eagerly heeded this advice out of a combination of fear and a desire to fit in. These days, not so much. I'm tired of holding my tongue. I realize that through my silence, I have become part of the problem.
As I have started to find my voice, I've learned something extremely valuable: some of my complaints have been effective. That's right, some of my complaints have actually resulted in positive change. Imagine that! And nearly every time, the initial response has been the same, "Oh, I had no idea. Nobody has ever complained before." So before we complain, maybe we should try complaining.
http://www.atheistrev.com/2012/04/doing-something-about-state-promotion.html
THIS is where the common ground is to be found, keeping all religion out of government.
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Doing Something About State Promotion of Religion (Original Post)
cleanhippie
Apr 2012
OP
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)1. I'm with you here
I go out of my way to explain that I don't NEED any "blessings" or "prayers", and I don't care to be someone's ticket to THEIR salvation. Yeah - I'm beyond being polite about it anymore.
longship
(40,416 posts)2. When somebody "blesses" me after I sneeze
I am tempted to respond, "Thank you, your eminence."
Unless it's a friend, I usually just say, "Thank you." The blesser means well. I see no need to insult them for it.
But I agree in principle with the post.
rug
(82,333 posts)3. Oh, there's a lot more common ground than that, unless the particular atheist is a Randian.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)4. Well, lucky we have you to decide just who is and who isn't one then.