Thanks to Kim Davis, More Americans Than Ever Before Support Equal Rights Over Religious Bigotry

[trotsky]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/09/15/thanks-to-kim-davis-more-americans-than-ever-before-support-equal-rights-over-religious-bigotry/

Back in July, after the Supreme Court legalized marriage equality, one national poll found that, if they were in conflict, 56% of Americans wanted the government to protect religious liberties over gay rights. Only 39% wanted it the other way around. Not good. The same poll said 49% of Americans agreed local officials should be able to do what Kim Davis just did and deny marriage licenses to gay couples.

Oh, how the times have changed.

An ABC News/Washington Post poll out today finds that large majorities of Americans now back equal rights over religious privilege and say Kim Davis needs to do her damn job:



...

She and her lawyers are so reviled, they’re pushing people away from religious bigotry. Most people want nothing to do with them or their views.

Ha ha ha!

[LostOne4Ever]

1. K&R nt

[HassleCat]

2. Well, most people

Right this moment, I'm sitting in McDonalds, listening to some of the local Tea Party types predicting that Catholic churches will be forced to perform gay weddings. Because Kim Davis, of course.

[Lordquinton]

3. Even people here on this site have that problem

Don't know the difference between public officials and private entities.

Although Catholic churches get special treatment from the government, so they should face harsh consequences for discrimination, but's we're still trying to convince people that their stance on gays and women actually is discrimination so...

[rug]

7. No one, literally no one, is saying any religion must perform same sex marriages.

Is that what you're implying?

[Lordquinton]

15. How did you even get that?

You need to chill on that persecution complex.

[rug]

30. From your tortured syntax.

[Lordquinton]

42. If you can't keep up that's not my fault

I'm not going to explain every step of the way every time because you're playing little games about not understanding basic concepts that have been explained here numerous times. Play ignorant if you want, but you have been well informed on these issues, so it won't fly.

[bvf]

4. Maybe Pope Awesome will come to the rescue.

Posted this link in another thread, but it might find a home here as well...

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/150907

[mr blur]

45. Blank Frank? No - who is he to judge?

As somebody said...

[bvf]

46. Yet maybe he'll send an emissary

to commiserate with a fellow rights-denying homophobe.

I'll be very curious to see what happens, and what kind of media coverage (if any) it receives.

[Starboard Tack]

5. Good to see that religious bigotry is being called out.

We can all learn from that. Democrats, it seems, are not immune from engaging in such bigotry

[Lordquinton]

6. I know, right here on this board

There are progressive Democrats, Atheists even, who have said wildly homophobic things (and gotten rightfully hidden for them, I might add) and still don't own up to their own bigotry.

I don't have the links handy, but BMUS usually does, perhaps you can ask her nicely if you, or anyone else, wants something to back that up.

[Starboard Tack]

8. Yep, there are fundies of all different stripes.

Check this one out for an example

The Golden Rule doesn't compel people to be bigots, haters, and war mongers like the rest of the Bible does, as well as other religious texts. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218212220#post2

[Lordquinton]

16. I don't follow, where's the bigotry here?

I can see how someone might be made someone upset, but hurt feelings doesn't equal bigotry.

[Starboard Tack]

21. So, do you agree with him?

Do you think the entire bible is compelling people to be haters, bigots and warmongers? Except for that one thing about "Do unto others", of course.
Are you also that extreme?

[Lordquinton]

23. It's an incomplete quote

And in responce to someone else that you're taking out of contrxt and assuming it's literal in it's meaning. Why are you such a literalist? Also might want to do so.eing about that beam in your eye.

[Starboard Tack]

25. Why am I such a literalist?

The quote was quite complete. What did I leave out that changes anything?
What context and meaning did I miss? Please, enlighten me.

[Lordquinton]

43. Well you left out how it was in response to someone in a specific conversation

How about this bigoted quote?

You really look for extreme situations to provide fodder for your hatred of religion. How about if I wanted to marry my bicycle, or my hamster and some church opposed performing the ceremony, would you be there, fighting for my rights?

Do you agree with that?

[Starboard Tack]

44. I think you need a dictionary

Bigoted toward whom? Did I mention any group besides those who hate religion and attack believers at every opportunity. Yeah, maybe I am bigoted towards bigots.

[Lordquinton]

59. It's been explained many times here

so I know you know why that line is bigoted, but for those in the audience I'll lay it out. The "I can marry my bike" is an offensive, right wing meme that used to get brought out when marriage equality is brought up. It's a slippery slope argument that tries to make it seem like if we allow men to marry men, then people will marry their bicycle, or a box turtle. At the same time it demeans the struggle for equality. It also displays a gross misunderstanding of the topic.

Marriage is not about a man and his property (which the quote does infer) but a contract between two consenting adults. You cannot marry your bicycle, or your goat, because those are your property, and if you can't tell the difference between property and a human being then, well, let's say you're on the wrong site.

[cleanhippie]

48. !!!!

[beam me up scottie]

10. At your service, my Lord!

You can bookmark my post and link to it and/or copy and paste it verbatim every time Tack decides he has the right to lecture anyone about bigotry.

[beam me up scottie]

9. Yes, and many atheists have been calling out bigotry for years right here on DU:

Starboard Tack (10,698 posts)
112. And this has what to do with the RCC?

Why would any couple want to marry in a church that doesn't accept them? Makes no sense.
You really look for extreme situations to provide fodder for your hatred of religion. How about if I wanted to marry my bicycle, or my hamster and some church opposed performing the ceremony, would you be there, fighting for my rights?

I'm sorry, but religious rights and gay rights are not the same thing. I support both. Seems like you only support one. I know many gay couples, some who married in church and some at town hall and some couldn't care less about the institution of marriage.

I think your views are self centered. You want the world to adapt to your values, like the vegan who wants everyone to quit eating meat. What a boring world that would be.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=123723

Starboard Tack This message was hidden by Jury decision. Hide

176. Really? And how exactly did I do that?

You seem to confuse marriage and sexuality. The first is about a ceremonial binding of two entities. The second is about sex.
Who are you to tell me I cannot marry my dog, or my brother, or my mother, or my fucking bicycle, if I so wish. You don't get to decide these things. Sorry to disappoint you.

A Jury voted 5-2 to hide this post on Fri Apr 18, 2014, 05:12 PM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=124676

Starboard Tack (10,698 posts)
177. No, I am not equating it with anything.

We should all have the right to marry whomever or whatever, provided it is consensual and conducted of sound mind.
Do you have a problem with sisters marrying each other? I don't. How about other family members? Do you draw lines and, if so, why?

My point, as I'm sure you are already aware, was about seeking approval from the RCC or any other church, to get married. That approval comes from within one's own conscience. Official approval comes from the state. Fuck the church and fuck those who want to paint me as an enemy of equal rights. Fuck the bigots and bullies and nasty hate mongering anti-theists. Fuck all fascists.

Happy Easter!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=124679

We should thank the atheists who were there to call out those disgusting homophobic comments and the jurors who voted to hide them.

[trotsky]

11. Not to mention misogynistic bigotry.

For women denied birth control coverage:

Starboard Tack (11,030 posts)
35. They could do as you suggest, or buy their insurance elsewhere

Or they could go to any drugstore and buy some rubbers. That's what most of us do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=123388

Because we all know that when women need birth control, all they really need is a box of condoms.

[beam me up scottie]

12. Yep. Fuck all those women who need birth control for health reasons.

Who do those uppity women think they are? How dare they criticize the RCC?

[trotsky]

13. Well, according to some, if it doesn't affect them personally, it's not a problem.

Such a myopic, self-centered view of the world.

[beam me up scottie]

14. Catholic bishops in Africa are lying about vaccines that save lives?

NMP.

[bvf]

47. My daughter's in such a position

and to read dismissive comments about clearing things up with a box of condoms makes me want to vomit.

Idiotic observations to the effect that, if a contraceptive is used in treatment of a health condition, then it's not a contraceptive, really are frightening.

Some people serve everyone better by staying under their rocks.

[beam me up scottie]

50. Exactly. You get it.

Some men have their priorities all wrong and that's all I trust myself to say tonight.

And yeah, your last sentence - word.

[Starboard Tack]

19. No, actually it is the men who need them

Funny thing biology, isn't it. As your buddy Skepticscott would say, "It's a sciency thing"

[cleanhippie]

49. So it was men you were talking about when you said "they could go to any drugstore and buy rubbers"?

Starboard Tack (11,030 posts)
35. They could do as you suggest, or buy their insurance elsewhere

Or they could go to any drugstore and buy some rubbers. That's what most of us do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=123388

Seriously? You're going to pretend you meant "men" when you said "they"? Seriously?

Let's look again.

Starboard Tack (11,030 posts)
35. They could do as you suggest, or buy their insurance elsewhere

Or they could go to any drugstore and buy some rubbers.That's what most of us do.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=123388

[Starboard Tack]

51. Hey your cleanliness, I apologised

I made assumptions in my ignorance, OK.
Not easy to understand your healthcare system, but it was definitely a bad post on my part. I should do my research before spoutng off on such issues. I'm sure you understand.

[cleanhippie]

52. Blaming your hateful ignorance on 'not understanding your healthcare system' isn't an apology.

It's an excuse, and a lame one at that.

Telling women they can 'go buy rubbers' to make up for the ever-shrinking access to womens health professionals is not due to 'not understanding your healthcare system', that comes from YOU.

Just like equating equal-marriage to 'marrying your bicycle or hamster' came from YOU.

Just like calling DU'ers 'vermin' came from YOU.

You can't even bring yourself to stop and look at the things you've said and understand why it's so wrong, but instead lay the blame on something else.



You should be ashamed.

[trotsky]

53. Should be.

But he's not. Just keeps doubling down, pretending that everyone else is the problem. Too many people have him pegged now, though.

[cleanhippie]

54. But blaming his misogyny on 'not understanding your healthcare system'?

I mean, I know he's 'basically homeless' most of the year while living on his yacht in Mexico (when he's not living in his villa in Italy), but he is from this country and understands that 'our healthcare system' has nothing to do with the war on women's reproductive rights.
Sounds exactly like RW talking points, though. Just like the 'equal marriage is like marrying your bicycle or hamster' is a RW meme.

It's misogyny, pure and simple.

[trotsky]

55. Yes, his non-apology centers around a supposed misunderstanding of insurance.

But the misunderstanding is about women's reproductive health. Every man needs to understand and respect that.

I still don't know if he's learned.

[Starboard Tack]

56. Oh blah, blah, blah!

You are so behind with your homework.

[cleanhippie]

57. Finally!

you've fully embraced incoherence.

[Starboard Tack]

58. Finally, you understand

I just had to find the right language.

[cleanhippie]

60. I understand much, especially you calling DU'ers 'fascists' and 'vermin',

And you equating equal marriage to 'marrying your bicycle or hamster'.

And you thinking that women can 'just go to the store and buy some rubbers' when ac cess to their healthcare is obstructed.

Yeah, I understand, tacky. I understand exactly the person you are.


But you stay classy, ok. You've earned all the respect you deserve.

[beam me up scottie]

61. +1

[Starboard Tack]

17. And once again, I thank you for your support BMUS

You are always there when we need you. You are my favorite.
Big hug

[AtheistCrusader]

18. That deflection is wearing thin.

[Starboard Tack]

20. You can say that again

But my friend BMUS is always on point to demonstrate it. Gotta love her for that.

[AtheistCrusader]

22. Well, it's certainly easier to complain about being reminded, than it is to own up to all that

horrible shit you posted, repeating right wing talking points about marrying dogs and bicycles, and women getting their birth control from the store 'like everyone else' rather than inconvenience religious corporations with the president's landmark legislation (ACA).

[Starboard Tack]

24. Who's complaining?

I stand by every post quoted. If you guys want to misinterpret, that's on you. Whatever rocks your boat Nobody here seriously thinks I'm a bigot, and you know it. Problem is, I don't hate the believers enough for some folk. Too fucking bad.
Not big on humor in the basement, unless it's puerile mockery of religious beliefs. And that's a sad excuse for humor.
And then there's you, who could've been a voice of reason and reconciliation. Amazing the power a mob can have, isn't it. I guess we all have the desire to belong, no matter how distasteful it can be at times. Camaradarie can be a good thing, but when the bullies take charge, well we know how that goes.

I'll just keep on being silly old me, rubbing people the wrong way, hoping to get them to rethink their dogma and get some perspective on life.

[AtheistCrusader]

27. Yeah, I bet all those juries misinterpreted too.

Everyone's out to get you.

[Starboard Tack]

32. No, they are not. Sometimes I get out of line.

Is everyone out to get you because of all your hides? Shit gets twisted. Tempers rise. We don't always say things in the most politic of ways. Big deal.

[AtheistCrusader]

35. No. My hides were pretty explicit and well-deserved.

The problem wasn't what I said, it was how I said it.

Your 'so what if I marry my dog or my bike' bullshit is rotten to the core. You didn't get a hide for calling someone a douchebag or an asshole, you got a hide because the very nature of your idea was inimical to the principles of Democratic Underground Dot Com and the inhabitants thereof.

[Starboard Tack]

38. Right!

I'm off to bed now, but feel free to continue the sanctimonious rant.

[Starboard Tack]

26. Except I wasn't repeating anything

It was all mine. Completely original. I don't read right wing talking points. Sorry to disappoint you.
I support Planned Parenthood. I support same sex marriage. I support the rights of everyone to marry whomever or whatever, as often as they want, providing nobody gets hurt. Why anyone would want to marry in any church is beyond me, but each to his own. Not for me to judge.
I do not support religious institutions or corporations of any kind.
I do not think any individual is a bigot purely because he chooses to believe in a deity.

I find self righteousness abhorrent, whether it comes from believers or non-believers.

[AtheistCrusader]

28. And STILL you double down.

"I support the rights of everyone to marry whomever or whatever, as often as they want, providing nobody gets hurt."

Just can't walk away from that whole 'marry non-consenting animals or inanimate objects' talking point you keep running. Still. Today. After who knows how many hides. Still gotta slip that fucking bullshit in there.

[beam me up scottie]

29. Nice catch.

Not only is he not sorry for saying it he keeps repeating it.

[Starboard Tack]

34. Thanks for monitoring this

I don't know what I'd do without your support. Are you goes going for a hide here? Wouldn't that be fun?
"Nice catch"

[Starboard Tack]

31. Oh, stop being so silly. It is you that is fixated on animals and objects.

I was making a point about restrictions, not advocating anything. What is wrong with you. There are individuals out there who marry themselves, for goodness sake. What is your problem with that?
I have celebrated 2 same sex marriages of dear friends this year alone, and many more in the past. Does that mean only humans can marry other humans? I don't care who marries whom, it is their choice and I wish them the best. I don't think that freedom to marry whomever or whatever means the world is going to hell in a hand basket, like some.
I ask you, what restrictions you would like to impose on those who want to marry? Come on, let's hear it. I bet you won't answer that.
Marriage is a basic human right, unlike the right to carry a gun around.
Do you think I give a shit about how many hides I have? I'm here to contribute, not win a popularity contest, or accommodate certain fellow atheists who want me to toe the line. I'm not in a knitting group, or a let's chuckle about Jesus group.

You call it "doubling down". I call it being true to myself and being decent to others, regardless their beliefs.

Go ahead, alert away, if that makes you happy. Or you could respond to what exactly you disagree with, which would be good. Then, we might have a reasonable conversation.

[AtheistCrusader]

33. IT IS A LEGAL CONTRACT FOR THE TENTH BLOODY TIME.

It requires CONSENTING LEGAL ENTITIES to enter into it. This is not difficult.

Your dogged support for "dogs", "voles", "bicycles" and every other idiotic idea you had lends support to the right wing assholes that use that VERY SCENARIO to fuel their fevered dreams of slippery slopes, which they use to bolster support AGAINST same sex marriage at the polls.

This has been explained to you over and over and you've gotten at LEAST three hides for it that I've seen, and still you just can't fucking help yourself, can you.

[Starboard Tack]

36. Ah, so now we're talking about "legal contracts"

When did that come up before? Did any of my "homophobic posts" mention legal contracts? Hmm, thought not.
Show me one of the "many times" legal contracts have been a part of the conversation.

Maybe those hides were about putting words in my mouth that were never there.

I lend no support to RW assholes any more than a good upstanding Democrat who spouts NRA propaganda in the gungeon. If RW assholes want to quote me, let them. They will see that I support same sex marriage, LGBT rights and I have an intense dislike of religious fundamentalism.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. Marriage is a legal contract.

But, of course, you knew that. You also knew that each of those conversations was in the context of various legal battles here in the united states about same sex marriage at the time

[beam me up scottie]

39. You heard it here first!

Marriage isn't a legal contract.

[AtheistCrusader]

40. Right. Same sex couples haven't been fighting for legal recognition of their rights in this

country for decades or anything.

[beam me up scottie]

41. Well you know, just like women want the RCC to give them birth control and abortions

lgbt people want the homophobic institution to marry them.

Because that's what he's really saying when he makes comments like the ones I linked to.

Right wing talking points, all of them.

We just want the religious bigots to stop denying us basic human rights, the same as straight hetero males but that is just too much to ask apparently.