Questions about "Jesus died for our sins"

[DetlefK]

If I understand this correctly, Jesus' act of dying removed the weight of their sins from mankind. That means, a sin is still a bad thing, but God has decided to spare the sinner the punishment for it (because he's suddenly super-chill in the New Testament).

1. Does this only refer to the sins that had been amassed up to this point or does it include the sins that came after Jesus' death?

2. If it encompasses ALL sins, wouldn't that mean that believers have no authority to act against sinners? I mean, God himself has decided that there won't be a punishment, so who are the believers to second-guess him and demand punishment for the sinner?

[TlalocW]

1. Here it is as I see it

God created Adam and Eve without the knowledge of what is good and evil so they couldn't know what they were doing was good or evil when they ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil so he cast them out of the Garden because of his design flaw.

Then God somehow lost control of humankind so much he had to drown almost everyone in a flood to start over instead of something less extreme, but just because He's omnipotent, I guess that doesn't mean He's imaginative.

Then God somehow lost control of humankind so much again that He had to find a loophole to his own rules and sacrificed himself to himself because even though He's an omnipotent being, He can't just forgive people straight out and let them into Heaven for some reason. This act saves you unless you don't believe or aren't given the chance to believe (if you've never heard the Gospel) then you're punished for all eternity for a finite crime, showing how merciful He is.

And now we've arrived here where you're wanting something logical out of all this.

TlalocW

[Angry Dragon]

3. You make god sound very vengeful

[gcomeau]

4. Pretty sure the bible does that all by itself. -eom

[TlalocW]

5. Noooooo...

The Bible does that. He even says he's a vengeful God in Nahum.

TlalocW

[Angry Dragon]

6. do not forget jealous

[A HERETIC I AM]

24. Another version;

[Lordquinton]

2. He didn't do a good job of dieing either

Came back after 3 days. Not much of a sacrifice really.

[demwing]

7. More like "Jesus worked a 3 day weekend for your sins"

Thanks, Christ! I'll cover the next one...

[Goblinmonger]

8. One of my favorite Atheist Pig

[DetlefK]

9. Stay away from me, you mind-thief!!!

[Angry Dragon]

16. smile

[Igel]

10. One tradition on several points.

Typically the belief is that past sins are covered, but that failure to live up to the (increased) ideas, once repented of, is also covered. Willfully disregarding the injunctions not to sin is a willful denial of forgiveness, and is not covered.


It potentially covers all sins. But those not repented of are a kind of gray area with no clear "coverage" except for believers to be merciful. It's considered shameful by Paul for believers to take believers to court. There's no authority for believers to sit in judgement of those who sin. It's one thing to say that they sin; it's another to pronounce judgement and the penalty they will pay over them. (This is not to say that it's wrong to decry the sin, to point out their sins, or to say what the penalty they will pay in the absence of repentence.)

So believers under this view have limited authority to do things like prosecute. When you see people throwing hatred and vitriole, that's not Xianity. At best it's a failure to live up to the terms of the faith, IMHO.

When you see people who act like Jesus' death was pointless because, well, sinning's fine--the entire idea of a Law and of standards for behavior was just a horrible idea--they're saying that Jesus didn't tell the woman caught in adultery (assuming that's not a part cut from their personal redaction), "Go and sin no more" but, instead, "Go and sin some more. I'll meet you at Joe's tavern at 10 to help you get started, after the wife's asleep and the kid's are in bed."

[Leontius]

11. Only God has ever had authority to judge the heart of man.

Mans' judgement is of this world only and too often has confused or conflated sin with crime. Before a man passes judgement on men remembering that they also will be judged by their measurement of others needs to be understood.

[Cartoonist]

12. You're asking us

to understand one of the most F'd up things in the bible?

And don't tell me you understand it, because you don't.

[mr blur]

14. Stop and listen to yourself; I'd like to think that you don't really believe this nonsense,

but, sadly, I'm certain that you do. Have you no self-respect at all? What laughable drivel.

[Leontius]

17. You can't imagine how much your opinion means to me.

[mr blur]

21. Good to hear. I'd hate to think that we had anything in common.

[cleanhippie]

22. Enough that you feel compelled to respond with your nonsensical blather.

So it seems it means quite a bit to you.

Now the question is why?

[trotsky]

18. That's amazing coming from you...

given how you have judged so many here.

[Leontius]

19. See post #17.

[trotsky]

20. How very Christian. n/t

[cleanhippie]

23. See post #2

[hrmjustin]

13. Personally for me I think it means the heavens are open to humanity and that sin is conquered.

And Jesus was clear we should not judge and if we do we should judge with a forgiving heart.

[Angry Dragon]

15. christians at times are just a blood thirsty lot