I just asked my transgender roommate about the RCC.

[F4lconF16]

Ze's response?

You know, I try not to hate on religion much. I just wish it would go away. I don't like the Catholic Church at all, but I don't hate it. It would be nice if it disappeared and went away forever, though.

And yeah, I don't get why people like the Pope so much.

Ze also said that the RCC was very much a bigoted organization. It doesn't make a difference in zirs life if it's policy or if it's just that all the people in the Vatican are transphobic. Either way, it encourages the people around zir to be transphobic, and of course that doesn't end well. And of course, ze thinks the Pope is a bigot. Because of course he is.

Can we please, please, please stop defending, minimizing, and hiding their bigotry on here? Doing so is bigotry in itself, and has real effects on real people.

[rug]

1. "their" bigotry is whose bigotry exactly?

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/report-pope-francis-meets-hugs-transgender-man

http://www.hoy.es/extremadura/201501/25/bendito-encuentro-entre-francisco-20150125003218-v.html

https://catholictrans.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/what-does-the-catholic-church-actually-say-about-transgenderism/

[Bluenorthwest]

2. At least try to be honest brokers who don't try to pretend that a hug mitigates all that trash talk

and institutional discrimination. It is part of the RCC, own it or disown it, you can't pretend it does not exist.

[rug]

3. Ok, you answer the question. Whose bigotry is "their" bigotry?

That's a rather broad and ambiguous statement.

At least try to be honest in your answer.

[Cartoonist]

9. I'll answer the question

Stop being ridiculous. Homophobic bigotry is ingrained in the RCC. It appears in many passages in the hate manual and has NEVER been repudiated by any prominent official of the Vatican.

If a priest comes out as gay, his career is over. If a priest denounces the homophobia, his career is over.

The more pertinent question, and one with fewer examples, would be, "who in the RCC isn't a bigot?"

[rug]

12. "Stop being ridiculous" is hardly an answer.

You're the second person to step up to answer the question posed to another. This is like batting practice.

As to your question, by far, most are not.

Now Cartoonist, are you saying Catholic people are, by far, bigots? Let's hear your answer.

[Cartoonist]

13. Deflecting again

When I say the RCC, I am referring to church officials. My guess is that over 95 percent of them toe the line of homophobic bigotry.

Feel free to give examples of priests in the RCC that openly welcome gays and afford them equal status in all things.

I doubt you'll hit over the Mendoza line.

[rug]

14. No, that's called clarification.

It's a useful tool when you're quick to throw around accusations of bigotry.

[cleanhippie]

26. You're wasting valuable energy, cartoonist.

Popeaholics will never admit to the inherent and overt bigotry of the RCC. Ever.

[F4lconF16]

5. Their bigotry being the RCC's, and more specifically, the Vaticans.

I'm not saying all Catholics are bigots any more than I'm saying all Americans are bigots for the US government's actions overseas and towards minorities in the US.

But when you refuse to recognize that the institution you support and are a part of is bigoted, you become part of the problem.

Please stop pretending hugs make up for his statements in the past about LGBT folk and women, and the total lack of anti-discriminatory statements from the Church.

[rug]

6. Thanks for the clarification.

I don't put any more stock in hugs than I do in broad-brushed statements.

[Lordquinton]

10. "I don't put any more stock in hugs than I do in broad-brushed statements."

That's funny, cause you sure love making them.

You also glossed over this line:

But when you refuse to recognize that the institution you support and are a part of is bigoted, you become part of the problem.

What's your response to that?

[rug]

11. There's as much bullshit in that remark as there is in yours.

[Lordquinton]

15. Care to expand?

the argument "Because I say so" doesn't work, your church apparently re-wrote bigoted beliefs within the last 100 years, so they can rewrite it again to remove the bigotry (I know, you claim it's not bigotry, but you, the cis-white-upper middle class-hetero catholic doesn't get to dictate when something your saying is being called out, no matter how self-righteous and abusive you get).

Oh, you still never confirmed that you know what LGBTQIA means, so that makes your whole righteous indignation even more out of place.

[rug]

16. No.

Bullshit laced with petulance does not equal discussion.

[Lordquinton]

17. I agree

so please contribute to the discussion instead of verbally abusing everyone around who doesn't agree with you?

Perhaps answer a question, like my lowball easy one of what LGBTQIA means.

[rug]

18. Do you mean the acronym that is widely known, available with a click if not,

and the definition that you posted here some days ago?

That LGBTQIA?

The more inclusive term is ‎LGBTTIQQ2SA.

[Lordquinton]

19. And yet you still can't provide it

And I'd stop relying on the Urban Dictionary for information, if I were you.

[rug]

20. I just did.

However, since you're unfamiliar with it, here's a longer explanation.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/toronto/2014/06/24/whats-in-an-abbreviation-worldpride-2014-organizers-go-long-with-lgbttiqq2sa.html

Your posts are tedious enough as is without performing stale parlor tricks.

[Lordquinton]

21. But you didn't?

Congratulations, you went to the second google link after Urban Dictionary. And I bet you don't even know why that's a less inclusive acronym than the one I'm asking about (Considering you don't even know what it means in the first place, for all we know)

[rug]

22. Much as I enjoy this . . . .

[Lordquinton]

23. Ok.

I mean this has gotten off topic, and really we need to focus on the acronym that is the antithesis of inclusiveness:

RCC

[LostOne4Ever]

24. No it is not more inclusive...

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Any form of alphabet soup that puts the A as being ally is not inclusive...

In fact, it is pretty much exclusive of a major sexuality. My sexuality.


LGBTTQQI2SAAAPP

And not a single A stands for Ally.

Really, I think people should leave it as LGBTQ+. The abbreviation loses all purpose past that.[/font]

[rug]

25. It is more inclusive than the one he posted.

Which is not to say it was the exclusive one.

In any event, the point was made.

[gcomeau]

27. Aww, the Pope hugged a transgender guy?

That COMPLETELY negates his active campaign to deny them human rights if he hugs them while he does it! How wrong we all obviously were, clearly the Pope is a visionary champion of gay rights.

[rug]

28. Would it make you feel better if he spit on him?

You know, keep your narrative flowing.

[gcomeau]

29. Nope, wouldn't feel better at all. Now you answer a question.

Are you seriously under the impression that pointing out the Pope hugged a transgender person means that it's ok that he has traveled the world consistently and actively advocating for the denial of their human rights under the laws of the nations he addresses?

That a friendly embrace negates that and renders any claims of bigotry refuted?

[rug]

30. No, I think it's an act of grace and humanity.

You're no good at compound questions.

[gcomeau]

31. Then WHY DID YOU POST IT

...as a response to the OP under the post title asking "whose bigotry" as if it had anything whatsoever to do with whether the parties under consideration were being bigoted?

[rug]

32. Why does it upst you (caps omitted).

FYI, it was one of several links I posted.

What, what is it, about this gesture that angers you?

You sound like someone who's carefully constructed strawman just blinked.

[gcomeau]

33. People wasting the time of everyone in a discussion always irritates me.

If you had no reason for posting it, and you just avoided providing a reason again, then you were wasting everyone's time in this thread with a Red Herring designed to distract attention from the actual subject.

[rug]

34. This must explain my current irritation.

Bye.

[gcomeau]

35. Better to flee than to defend your reason for posting the link huh?

I understand.

[rug]

36. Lol.Well, now you've got my attention back.

I can't resist that lame declaration of "victory".

No, you're not irritated. You're angry.

Take another stab at the question.

What, what is it, about this gesture that angers you?

[gcomeau]

37. Sorry, that's not how this game is played.

You don't get to reject my answer to a question you already asked based on what... your ability to telempathically divine my emotional state from the text on your screen?

I answered your question, the answer hasn't changed, and I'm not pointlessly answering it again just so you can waste yet more time while trying desperately to direct the discussion away from the topic.

Now regarding the question which is still hanging there UNanswered:


Why did you post the link in a reply questioning the accusation of bigotry if it has no bearing on the accusation of bigotry?

[rug]

38. ust have been the all caps.

And it does have bearing.

You, on the other hand, posited as outweighing all else.

Why is that?

[gcomeau]

39. As a first impression perhaps.

But not on the second pass after it was pointed out to you otherwise by the person experiencing, and this the world's leading authority on, those emotions and you refused to accept the answer.

And it does have bearing.

Awesome. Do tell what that bearing is.

You, on the other hand, posited as outweighing all else.

Posited what as outweighing all what else?

[rug]

40. Outweighing all the things you alleged.

Do you think an inveterate transphobe would hug a transgendered person.

Oh wait. You believe it's all pr, amirite?

[gcomeau]

41. When exactly did we switch from talking about bigotry to "inveterate transphobia"?

Oh wait, we didn't. That's just you pulling a bait and switch because you know you can't actually defend the Pope or the RCC against the bigotry accusation. So quick! Deflect!!!!

[rug]

42. Inveterate transphobia is bigotry. You objected to the Pope hugging an transgendered person.

Pay attention.

[gcomeau]

43. In the same way my thumb is a finger.

But if we're talking about the properties of my index finger you don't get to start making arguments based on the characteristics of my thumb.

Transphobia does not cover the full breadth and scope of anti gay or even anti trans bigotry. And I'm pretty sure you damn well know it.


And I did not "object to" the Pope hugging a trans person. He hugged the uy, good for him.

I objected to YOU presenting it in the context of this discussion as if that somehow refuted or even had any relevance whatsoever to the claim that he was being bigoted towards gay and trans people, like that somehow counter-balanced his entire worldwide campaign to deny them basic human rights.

[rug]

44. You are comparing transphobia to a thumb?

[gcomeau]

45. We can continue this discussion after you go back to school...

...and learn what an analogy is.

[Yorktown]

4. I think Ze's will be vindicated in a few decades

Polls show religion is on the way out in the West.

The RCC is on the decline despite Latino immigration with a RCC background.

The RCC and other superstitions will wither away as education compounds by generations.

To give Ze comfort, tell him/her to read who the saint of the day is daily:

most of the time, it's good for a laugh.

[goldent]

7. I agree with "Saint of the Day" -- often inspiring

http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/SaintofDay/

[Yorktown]

8. yes, lots of funny, imaginative stories

I like the one where the sun did not rise for three days.

They didn't mention how hey kept track of the days.

Or why other countries didn't notice anything.

Good old Catholic Curch, always good for a laugh..