Can we discuss religion in a fresh productive way? I'm ready.
Last edited Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:03 AM - Edit history (1)
This post seeks to discuss the nature of religion as a positive value for some of us, while others legitimately and with good reason see it in a negative light. I realize that I have often responded belligerently before listening.
There is something of a dead-end in what has been happening here. I admit to being part of the problem, but what has been going on has gotten no one anywhere—no growth, no new insight, no understanding of each other. We may joust about who is the bigger, the smarter, the most stupid and superstitious, but there is really little sharing of information, just each of us trying to make debater’s points without success. Nobody is enlightened, let along changed. But perhaps we are not really at work to change anyone else—but to listen.
So let me a suggest a different approach.
First of all, there are some things we all might admit.
1-Every perspective, discipline and point of view has within it both the positive and the negative. The accusation has often been made that religion has an abundance of evil in its history. That is an accurate observation. As a theist, there are many of the terrible works of religion and religious people which are part of my heritage. I must own them: The Inquisition, the Crusades, the Salem witch trials, apartheid, slavery and segregation, and much more right down to right-wing religion as captive of the political right wing.—all are part of my history. It is a sad history. At the same time, atheism has its dark side. Like every other perspective good and evil are intertwined. Even science has its issues. The spoiling of the earth, atomic weapons and all weapons for that matter, are the products of a scientific discipline without a moral compass. To make points about who is worse gets us nowhere. We all share a mixed heritage.
2-The crisis facing America has little to do with who is right in our debates. The real issue lies in two very separate notions. One says every person for him/her self, and the devil take the hindmost. The other says that we are all involved in a community in which we need each other. The Christian fundamentalists who talk about their own personal salvation and the Objectivists who talk about the same thing in secular terms come from identical cloth. In both cases, that’s the enemy, not each other. Here in the Democratic Underground we have a very different perspective. We are a community of mutual need and support. Government is one way we manage that perspective.
3-Hard as it sometimes seems, we have much to learn from each other. I need to hear why atheists have been persecuted over the centuries, and to stand with and for them in their persecution. Atheists need to know that underneath the dogma of religion is an ethical imperative with which they probably already agree.
If we can agree about these things, is there a way to become a positive force, particularly as we face the decisions that must be made this year? I am ready to admit the many ways I have been part of the problem, not part of the answer.
Here then is my proposal as to what I will do, only asking a similar response.
1-Instead of focusing on what is evil, wrong, negative about others with a different view point, I will leave that aside and listen to what positive ideas and actions each of us has to offer. I’ll give up on Pol Pot and Ayn Rand. I will no longer try and point out the dark side of atheism, but listen to the positive things atheism and atheists have brought to the table—and ask the same from you.
2-I will immediately remove everyone on my ignore list from that designation, and try and listen with fresh ears to what all have to say.
3-I will quit trying to make smart debater’s points, and try to find ways we can agree about action, even if we will not agree about points of view.
4-While this group is titled “religion,” the issue is not pro-religion or anti-religion, but how each of these perspectives adds to our store of wisdom, and moves toward positive outcomes in the crises facing our country.
5-When I receive another’s post, instead of immediately thinking how I will respond, I will stop and listen before I react.
I’m ready for this transition whenever anyone else is.
Charles
= new reply since forum marked as read
I am an atheist and have been as long as I can remember, in spite of having been a regular church attendee for the first 13 years of my life. No, I would not have called myself that back then. Nevertheless, I went through the various ceremonial observances. I suspect many do the same as I did.
Many of the issues you bring up have been discussed in This DUThread. I, too, have been attempting to bring these issues to the fore.
I will be a very willing supporter of any such effort that you suggest as long as it is ecumenical, so to speak. 
Good for all of us here if people pay attention.
you won`t "put anyone on ignore"... you`ll just ignore them...... allrightythen..
one should try.
