Can an atheist deliver a prayer? U.S. judge wrestles with challenge to Pa. House's invocation rule

[Heddi]

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/can_an_atheist_deliver_a_praye.html

A federal judge is wrestling with some weighty theological and philosophical issues as he mulls whether to allow an alliance of "nonbelievers" to keep suing the state House of Representatives over its invocation policy.

The questions before U.S. Middle District Chief Judge Christopher C. Conner begin with, "What is a prayer?"

From there, they segue into "Can an atheist deliver a prayer?" and "Would a prayer delivered by an atheist meet the standards of the House, which demands that its invocations include an appeal to a divine power?"
..
Mark E. Chopko, the attorney representing the House, urged Conner to dismiss the suit, arguing that the House is well within the law in requiring the prayers delivered to it be of a theistic nature. In other words, to meet the House's standards, a higher power must be invoked, whether that power comes from one god or several, Chopko said.

Much of the hearing was taken up with debate over the definition of prayer, or at least how the House regards it under its Rule 17.

Chopko said Rule 17 is intended to help legislators seek unity and divine guidance as they prepare to do the government's business. "It's not an opportunity to proselytize. It's not an opportunity to degrade" other beliefs, he said. "It allows the legislators to hear words of prayer, something the (U.S.) Constitution allows."

Rule 17 specifies that those who want to give invocations must belong to recognized and established religious organizations, he noted. That doesn't limit participants to the Judeo-Christian-Muslim fold, but allows participation by Buddhists, Hindus and followers of other religions, Chopko said. He noted that Native American prayer has been delivered in the House chamber.

[guillaumeb]

1. That depends on what definition of prayer one uses.

At least under the legal definition:

n. the specific request for judgment, relief and/or damages at the conclusion of a complaint or petition.

http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1571

But if the body in question has a particular standard, I would think under Roberts Rules the body has the right to define what qualifies.

[MineralMan]

2. I have given invocations on several occasions in

an official capacity, and I am an atheist. What I do is to invoke the dignity of the human spirit as a guide. It has always been well-received. No invocation of a deity is needed.

[Heddi]

3. well, apparently you've never given an invocation in the PA House

because as highlighted above, the rule states that the invocation MUST invoke a deity or deities

[MineralMan]

4. No. I have actually only driven through PA.

I have only done that when asked to do so. If asked, I can offer something of that nature. I've never sought an opportunity to give an invocation, though.

[NeoGreen]

6. Is there an "Approved List" of deities?...

...or proscribed phrasing, if not, how would they be able to enforce this rule?

If there is a list, how is it maintained? Can "names" be removed or added?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

5. +1

Boo, hiss.

[Goblinmonger]

7. Appealing to humanity should count.

One would think these people would be OK enough to let this happen. But we know better what the outcome will be.