Majority of Canadians think religion does more harm than good

[trotsky]

http://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/07/03/majority-of-canadians-think-religion-does-more-harm-than-good/

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Ipsos Public Affairs surveyed 1,001 Canadians online from March 20 to 23 and the results suggest more Canadians are moving away from formal religions.

About 51 percent of respondents agreed that “religion does more harm in the world than good.” That’s a seven-point increase from a similar survey in 2011.

“A couple of points of shift is not a big deal because that’s all in margin of error, but when we have changes of seven points in six years … that’s a significant shift,” said Sean Simpson, vice president of Ipsos Public Affairs.

Simpson told The Catholic Register, a Canadian Catholic weekly, that in a technological age where information is so easily accessed, Canadians have a “higher sensitivity” to news of religious radicals committing acts of violence and terrorism.

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[Faux pas]

1. Amen to that!

[True Dough]

2. While I'm no fan of religion

I'm not sure how I would have answered those survey questions. Depends on how they were worded, I guess. I certainly don't endorse political parties developing or maintaining stances based on religious views, but I wouldn't want to stray into the "let's rid the world of religion" camp.

[trotsky]

3. "I wouldn't want to stray into the 'let's rid the world of religion' camp."

Did someone say we should?

[True Dough]

4. Nope, not in this thread

but I know there are people within those polled who feel that way. I'm just making the distinction that I'm not one of them.

Same thing when discussions about atheists arise and some religious types insist that atheists are always forcing their views down Christians' throats. I'm not one of those atheists either. I'll speak my piece and occasionally poke fun at some worshippers or Godly concept, but I don't relentlessly pursue and mock those who hold their religious views dear, providing they don't actively interfere with others' freedoms either.

[trotsky]

5. I find it interesting that you are disparaging a particular caricature of an atheist...

more than you are actually detailing or explaining your own views.

I guess as long as you make it clear you're not one of THOSE atheists.

https://xkcd.com/774/

[True Dough]

6. Very simply

my philosophy is live and let live. I generally don't berate the religious crowd unless they're causing grief for someone else due to some interpretation of a holy book.

[trotsky]

8. Do you think it's possible other people have a different perspective on what "causing grief" is? n/t

[True Dough]

10. Certainly!

We all draw lines in different places. I don't care to see personal freedoms infringed upon due to religious reasons at all, I can say that much.

[trotsky]

14. My concern is that talking more about the evil atheist stereotype, as you are doing...

distracts from the very real problems religion creates and/or exacerbates. By prefacing everything you say with some variation of "I'm not one of THOSE atheists who...", you are perpetuating the narrative that there exists these menacing, powerful, evil atheists who ruin everything simply because they might question things more than you feel comfortable doing. You are drawing the line at yourself, essentially branding everyone who takes even the slightest more firm stance than you as some kind of extremist.

[True Dough]

15. I'm coming up on one year of DU membership

So that makes me relatively new here. I have posted in the religion forum quite a few times. Have expressed my "religion is silly" and "religion can be harmful" views more than once.

In this thread, I express where I stand on the spectrum among atheists and I have you and lordquinton quickly admonishing me for not being a loyal "brother in arms."

"You know, we're all united against the baddie bible thumpers, so do your part and toe the line."

That's the impression that has been created. Ironically, lordquinton says the way I'm approaching things makes it easier for the theists to silence us. Yet it is him, and you, who are discouraging me from saying me piece.

I'm going to presume we're all liberals. As liberals we communicate where on the spectrum we fall. I supported Bernie. I supported Hillary. I supported O'Malley.

And I have, several times, weighed in on the DU general forum regarding the "type of liberal" I am. For example, there was that incident on a passenger plane three or four months ago where Ivanka and Jared and their kids were flying coach and they were verbally accosted by another passenger. My stance was that there's a time and place, and that wasn't it. Give 'em hell, but not in front of their kids while aboard a plane. Others felt it was fair game. So we disagreed on what's appropriate. But, just because I disagree with some of them, it doesn't mean I label them as "extremists," as you allege in your post above.

We should all be welcome to share our thoughts on what constitutes acceptable behavior and when we don't see eye to eye, either we say, "I won't go there, but you'll go there. Even though I disagree with you, that's your right and I respect that," or perhaps it does reach a point where it's "That's so vile to me that I won't associate with you anymore."

But, at least once in a while, I do like to check in with my peers and know where they stand. Assess their views, maybe modify my own. And I wont be silenced, not even by my "allies."

[trotsky]

16. What we're discouraging you from doing, is perpetuating a stereotype.

A stereotype that was crafted specifically to get atheists to censor their own opinions and not criticize religion.

Or at least perpetuating the ridiculous notion that an annoying atheist is just as bad as a religious fundamentalist who wants to kill people. (See: just about any thread regarding Richard Dawkins.)

No one is silencing you, BTW. You are still posting, and free to post whatever you want - and slam whatever fictional atheists you want, as well.

We're just giving our perspective and sharing our experience. You can shit all over that if you want - doesn't matter to me.

[True Dough]

18. Ultimately

I will continue to post whatever I want -- barring the mods/admins remove it.

I will weigh in wherever I see fit, whether that suits the agenda of the theists or atheists.

And I don't aim to "shit all over" anybody's perspective, just as I would hope people don't do to me, at least not without good reason. You know, the whole "do unto others" principle, which you don't have to be religious to subscribe to.

[trotsky]

19. Great! Please post whatever you want! Again, no one told you that you couldn't.

But others can post whatever criticisms of it they want, and you'll have to deal with that.

[True Dough]

20. I feel equal to the task

Quite capable. Thanks.

[Lordquinton]

9. You're not the kind that don't actually exist?

Good to hear.

That kind is a projection to silence atheists while theists push their views at every turn.

[True Dough]

11. Are you that easily silenced, Lordquinton?

You don't strike me as the shy, withering type. I can't imagine you are intimidated by the bullying tactics of some theists. That said, I give no quarter to religious folk who are pushy, just as I have little tolerance for atheists who lack civility.

[Lordquinton]

12. Holy non-sequiturs Batman!

You draw a false parallel. The majority of Theists are pushy, Atheists who are pushy are doing so to make space for others to exist in without being made to fele endangered.

So I guess you could say that I really don't mind "pushy" atheists.

[True Dough]

13. My false parallel or your chosen narrative?

So atheists can't be aggressive jerks? They're always defending against the "crusaders" from the church crowd? C'mon now. Seems a little black and white.

[Lordquinton]

17. your false parallel

An atheist being a jerk will never be at the same level as a theist being a jerk. Theists have a baseline of pushing their beliefs, atheists are now bold enough to speak out, and for that are considered "jerks" even though they are typically just saying "Hey, I have my own beliefs and they don't match to yours"

[Iggo]

21. That's because religion does more harm than good.