"Why Do Bad Things Happen to Good People?"

[yallerdawg]

By Rabbi Aron Moss

*****

When you have an explanation, pain doesn't seem so bad anymore. We can tolerate suffering when we know why it is happening.

And so, if we could make sense of innocent people suffering, if we could rationalise tragedy, then we could live with it. We would be able to hear the cry of sweet children in pain and not be horrified. We would tolerate seeing broken hearts and shattered lives, for we would be able to neatly explain them away. Our question would be answered, and we could move on.

But as long as the pain of innocents remains a burning question, we are bothered by its existence. And as long as we can't explain pain, we must alleviate it. If innocent people suffering does not fit into our worldview, we must eradicate it. Rather than justifying their pain, we need to get rid of it.

So keep asking the question, why do bad things happen to good people. But stop looking for answers. Start formulating a response. Take your righteous anger and turn it into a force for doing good. Redirect your frustration with injustice and unfairness and channel it into a drive to fight injustice and unfairness. Let your outrage propel you into action. When you see innocent people suffering, help them. Combat the pain in the world with goodness. Alleviate suffering wherever you can.

We don't want answers, we don't want explanations, and we don't want closure. We want an end to suffering. And we dare not leave it up to G‑d to alleviate suffering. He is waiting for us to do it. That's what we are here for.

[Act_of_Reparation]

1. In summary: "Don't ask questions"

Because if you start asking yourself why an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenelovent God would allow bone cancer in children, you start thinking he might not be omnipotent or omniscient or omnibenevolent... or real.

[trotsky]

4. Yep, sounds about right. n/t

[anneboleyn]

5. Exactly. Christianity has never answered this problem effectively. Other religions that believe that

a god might punish as well as reward doesn't face "the problem of evil" in the same way.

[HopeAgain]

14. I would note this article was written by a Rabbi nt

[yallerdawg]

7. No.

In summary:

So keep asking the question, why do bad things happen to good people. But stop looking for answers. Start formulating a response. Take your righteous anger and turn it into a force for doing good. Redirect your frustration with injustice and unfairness and channel it into a drive to fight injustice and unfairness. Let your outrage propel you into action. When you see innocent people suffering, help them. Combat the pain in the world with goodness. Alleviate suffering wherever you can.

[AtheistCrusader]

10. As if people weren't toiling day and night already to make it better.

Peddle this shit somewhere else. We're not idiots.

[Act_of_Reparation]

23. Keeping asking the question but stop looking for the answer.

Yeah. Makes sense.

[yallerdawg]

24. How does it make any sense...

for YOU to ask a question when you declare with certitude there will be no answer?

How does THAT make sense?

[Act_of_Reparation]

33. Such as?

Are you referring to something specific?

[yallerdawg]

37. You declare in Comment 1...

that unless this "being" answers the question (in a manner you find acceptable, I assume), God has no basis for existence.

That's a pretty Biblical stance - asked by many long before you - and answered (in a manner, I assume, that you find unacceptable)!

[Act_of_Reparation]

42. That certainly is a fascinating interpretation of what was written.

Because it seems to me I presented several possible answers.

[Lordquinton]

45. It's been answered?

Do tell...

[Skittles]

38. CORRECT

[opiate69]

62. Or as FZ famously said:

'What was it that Adam ate that he wasn’t supposed to eat? . . . it was the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The subtle message? “Get smart and I’ll fuck you over–sayeth the Lord.” God is the Smartest–and he doesn’t want any competition.'

[HopeAgain]

2. Thank you for this

Great reminder that rather than expecting Him to do my will, I need to focus on His for me. That's where we find peace.

[trotsky]

3. WTF

"And we dare not leave it up to G‑d to alleviate suffering. He is waiting for us to do it."

So it creates a universe that by all accounts seems to have horrible random shit happen to everyone, but even more shit that happens to those least able to handle it, and then wipes his hands clean and says it's up to the rest of us imperfect slobs to make the most of it.

Neat. Swell guy, that god fellow.

[Skittles]

39. they always have an answer

and the answers are formulated to allow people to keep believing in illusions and delusions

[3catwoman3]

6. The best explanation I have ever seen is the bumper sticker...

...that simply says, "Shit Happens."

It surely does.

[yallerdawg]

8. Yes it does.

[marylandblue]

9. Odd answer

We know why women have pain in childbirth. That's how we invented anesthesia. Knowing the cause of something does not stop you from asking questions, it helps you find solutions.

[yallerdawg]

11. Finding a solution may be the answer.

But what if we found the answer? What if someone came along and gave us a satisfying explanation? What if the mystery were finally solved? What if we asked why, and actually got an answer?

If this ultimate question were answered, then we would be able to make peace with the suffering of innocents. And that is unthinkable. Worse than innocent people suffering is others watching their suffering unmoved. And that's exactly what would happen if we were to understand why innocents suffer. We would no longer be bothered by their cry, we would no longer feel their pain, because we would understand why it is happening.

[HopeAgain]

12. You missed the point.

What the author is saying is we stop asking why pain and suffering in is allowed in God's World, and instead work to do what we can to end it. That can include finding out the cause of the pain and finding the solution thereto.

This is about a spiritual solution for us as individuals, and how believers can turn that into strength and motivation to help alleviate suffering in others.

If someone is not a believer, or doesn't feel the need to believe, fine, move on.

[marylandblue]

13. I just don't see the connection between knowledge and action

If we knew why God allowed suffering, would suffering really leave us unmoved? In most traditions, we are expected to relieve suffering anyway. So how would having that knowledge change the commandment or our natural response to suffering?

[HopeAgain]

17. I see your point.

This author seems to be saying that empathy and sympathy come out of the lack of understanding of the ways of God. If you believe in God as perfect, and if you could see the world as perfect, even with the suffering, then he posits that we would not feel the pain, which is the Human motivator for change. You would understand this is the way it is meant to be and no longer taking part in this physical world we are thrust into (again, without explanation).

I think of that part as interesting theological speculation from this author. I'm not sure I take that as fact, because he himself is conjecturing on the unknowable. I do believe most forms of spirituality recognize that the answer lies in living in the mystery, accepting it, and doing what we can. I think this is more aligned with Rabbinical thought, than Christian thought, but I like to be exposed to it all.

[guillaumeb]

15. Recommended, and thank you.

Some will use this as an occasion to explain how bad religion is. Others might realize what the Rabbi is saying and see that every violent act involves an actor, and those who are acted upon, and we must realize this and deal with this.

A deity does not force an actor to act upon people in a violent way.

[marylandblue]

16. What about genetic illness?

No violent actors there. Just blind evolution and a victim.

[guillaumeb]

18. What about a hammer falling on your foot?

Proof that the Creator is evil and wishes to harm you? Or perhaps you placed the hammer on the edge of the shelf.

[Act_of_Reparation]

34. Did you just equate congenital disease with human error?

Children get bone cancer because they were, what, careless with their bones?

[yallerdawg]

19. A victim looking for a solution, not another question.

The question shouldn't be "Why, oh why?"

It's "What can we do?"

That's why we are here!

[Voltaire2]

21. Does your god have any active role in the universe?

[yallerdawg]

25. I'm pretty sure "my" god has a very active role...

in making the Alabama Crimson Tide national contenders year after year after year after year.

There's no other explanation!

[Voltaire2]

26. so no serious answer?

Your rabbi is avoiding the issue and saying we can't handle the truth.

[marylandblue]

22. Well at least we can agree on that

[Htom Sirveaux]

32. In those situations, someone's free will is going to be violated.

By refusing to intervene, God de facto sides with the free will of the aggressor. Now one might say that ultimately the free will of the victim will be vindicated, but as MLK said, "Justice too long delayed is justice denied."

[guillaumeb]

41. Intervention eliminates free will.

So if one accepts that humans have free will, that implies the ability to freely decide on a course of action.

[Htom Sirveaux]

44. But the aggressor is in the process of eliminating the free will of the victim.

Someone's free will gets eliminated. Besides, the aggressor freely chose to attempt to commit the crime. Isn't that enough free will preserved for the perpetrator?

[Act_of_Reparation]

54. Bingo

Free will is about making decisions, not performing actions. If I decide to drive to the store to get a pack of smokes but find my car will not start, no one would claim the car has violated my free will.

[trotsky]

57. That stupid car thwarted god's plan!

BURN IT!

[guillaumeb]

58. Intervention eliminates free will.

And free will obviously implies the ability to act freely.

[Htom Sirveaux]

59. Perhaps re-read what I said,

and Act of Reparation's follow-up comment? I'm not sure you're seeing the issues we have raised.

[guillaumeb]

60. Perhaps this will express my idea more clearly.

Every action closes off alternate actions. If you are presented with 3 choices of action in a particular circumstance, if you freely choose action #1, there will be consequences that are realized by that action, and other consequences that may never be realized as a result of your action.

If one chooses to drive while impaired and someone dies in a traffic accident caused by the impairment, the impaired person chose to drive even if there was no choice to kill someone, and we know that the legal consequences of that decision will apply. And yes, the person who is killed will have no free will in that situation.

Is the death the fault of
A) a deity
B) the person freely choosing to drive impaired, or
C) the victim?

[Htom Sirveaux]

61. Ok, so if some free will is going to be eliminated regardless...

shouldn't it be the free will of the attempted wrong-doer, who has already freely willed his attempt? Fault isn't the issue. The issue is that preserving free will isn't a barrier to God intervening.

[guillaumeb]

63. I cannot speak for the Creator,

but in my view, free will either exists or it does not.

[Htom Sirveaux]

65. Let's explore that issue.

Can God contradict his own nature, by doing evil for example (assuming you believe that God's nature is goodness)?

[guillaumeb]

66. Evil and good are not absolute terms.

They are social constructs whose meanings vary from society to society.

[Htom Sirveaux]

70. Then "free will" is not an absolute good either, right?

But it seems that you were just treating it as an absolute.

[guillaumeb]

73. I said that I believe in the concept of free will.

That does not imply that every choice freely made will be the best choice, or a good choice, or the only choice.

Does this clarify it?

[Htom Sirveaux]

74. Not really, the issue is whether free will can ever be violated by God.

You seem to be saying "no", which makes it an absolute. But that's odd, because a being of unlimited power could seemingly violate free will with ease. Unless doing so would be bad, because that would contradict his nature. But you've already said that goodness and badness aren't rooted in God's nature, they aren't absolutes.

Leaving us with the following situation:

God can violate free will
It would sometimes be good if God violated free will
God refuses to violate free will ever
God is not doing all the good he can possibly do
God is a mixture of actual good and potential good
God is not the ultimately simple cause of all existence

[guillaumeb]

76. If the Creator also has free will,

any choices made would also close off other choices that were not made.

And my comments about good and bad relate only to my human understanding of the concepts, and the cultural variability of what constitutes good and bad.

[Htom Sirveaux]

79. Are you having difficulty understanding what I am saying?

That's not snark, it's a genuine concern on my part that I am not expressing myself clearly. Your answers seem disconnected from mine, in a way that suggests confusion.

[guillaumeb]

80. Obviously we are not having the same discussion.

Perhaps try with one question at a time. Do you understand what I mean by the concept of free will?

[Htom Sirveaux]

81. I think I do,

but it would be more efficient for you to just define it.

[guillaumeb]

83. The following is my personal belief:

I believe that the Creator created existence. I believe that the Big Bang theory is a scientific explanation for the metaphoric "let there be light" referenced in the Bible.

I believe that the Creator, having initiated the spark, allowed what evolved to evolve.

I believe that sentient beings, humans on earth, have free will as a consequence of that sentience.

I believe that free will, the ability to act freely, means that we take actions that have consequences for ourselves and others.

[Htom Sirveaux]

84. In essence, the universe has been granted its independence by the creator? n/t

[guillaumeb]

85. If one believes in a Creator, creation is dependent on the actions of that creator. eom

[Htom Sirveaux]

86. Always? Or just in the beginning for that "spark" you mentioned? nt

[guillaumeb]

87. A good question.

I would argue that the initial spark was lit, and the Creator allowed what evolved to freely evolve.

[Htom Sirveaux]

88. Is the creator finite or infinite?

You may have already answered this one, I don't remember.

[guillaumeb]

89. I can only speculate, and say that a Creator who created all of existence

might have no limits. Except for self-imposed ones.

[Htom Sirveaux]

90. An unlimited creator could contradict his own nature

by limiting himself?

[guillaumeb]

91. Not at all.

Unless you argue that we all contradict our own natures by not killing and stealing and other violent acts. Ability does not imply desire or compulsion.

[Htom Sirveaux]

92. This isn't about actions.

The correct analogy to the creator deciding to be finite is not a human deciding to avoid killing. It's a human deciding to become a penguin. You're talking about a basic change in inherent nature here.

[Voltaire2]

20. well here we are again back to what exactly is the nature of your god?

Is your god able to intercede in the real world? Is your god all powerful? All knowing? Is the universe the way it is by intention?

If your god is incapable of interceding in the world, did not design the universe to be as it is, has no powers, your god is irrelevant. Why am I supposed to worship it?

[yallerdawg]

27. I'm pretty sure you got it backwards.

I don't define God.

And - neither do you.

That's way above our pay grades!

[Voltaire2]

28. So no answer. Not surprising.

[yallerdawg]

31. You act as if...

there isn't a great big book explaining it all, and volumes and volumes of material in support.

The answers are there.

But as the rabbi says - you don't want an answer to the question.

[marylandblue]

48. The book seems to be self contradictory on many issues

And the volumes and volumes of supporting material even more divided.

[trotsky]

50. "a great big book explaining it all"

Oh really? Which book is that?

[Act_of_Reparation]

55. Oh, I know that one.

[elleng]

29. Nature.

[guillaumeb]

64. "Proving" that nature is evil.

And if nature is evil, evil becomes the preferred option, or at least the default option.

[trotsky]

67. Evil and good are not absolute terms.

They are social constructs whose meanings vary from society to society.

[guillaumeb]

68. Learning well are you, young Skywalker.

Happy am I.

[trotsky]

69. I can throw meaningless babble around just like the best of 'em! n/t

[guillaumeb]

71. Learning well are you, but there is far to go. eom

[trotsky]

72. How well I know!

You are far more advanced in your ability to avoid answering difficult questions. I shall continue to observe and learn.

[elleng]

75. NO, dear guill,

nature just IS!

[guillaumeb]

77. Something apart from human concepts of good and evil? eom

[elleng]

78. Indeed, ABSOLUTELY, just

IS!

[Corvo Bianco]

30. Hmmm... the message I got from this article was to take action.

I'm confused by the top responses.

[yallerdawg]

35. There is a remarkable level of religious intolerance...

in this little corner of the DU internet.

I do appreciate the 'Swing away!' nature of the conversation, though!

[Lordquinton]

47. To to privileged

Equality feels like oppression.

[Corvo Bianco]

49. I thought I was religiously intolerant until I

Saw this thread haha

It's a valuable message and god is barely mentioned. He's useless, that's the point!

No more prayers, congressmen.

[trotsky]

52. So it's "religious intolerance" when people disagree with you?

OK then. Perhaps we should get the government to silence all the mean atheists who dare question religious opinions?

[HopeAgain]

36. Some attack religion whenever a post mentions God.

It's just what they do.

[yallerdawg]

40. I'm going to go watch "Lucifer" now, one of my favorite TV shows!

I find it interesting how the Fallen One blends in with us so effortlessly - says repeatedly "I'm Lucifer!" - and no one notices him or pays attention.

[guillaumeb]

82. After some time here you will not be confused.

It is all part of the ambience.

[wasupaloopa]

43. Ever think there is no god pulling the strings? Occam's razor

The explanation with the least amount of assumptions is ???????????????????????????????????

[Lordquinton]

46. Amazing that every description of how this god acts

Last edited Tue Nov 7, 2017, 12:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Is identical to him not existing.

[DetlefK]

51. "Stop looking for answers." Because you might not like the answer you find.

What if the answer does not fit your religious beliefs? The horror, the horror.

[MineralMan]

53. According to doctrine in most Christian denominations,

there are no "good people." Sinners, one and all.

[DavidDvorkin]

56. Why do good things happen to bad people?

In both cases, it's because there is no god. If there were an all-powerful god, he'd be a monster.