I just noticed that this forum keeps on ignoring a vital topic: magic!

[DetlefK]

Why is it that we always discuss "religion vs science"?

Why don't we discuss "religion vs magic"?

Oh, now you might say that they are identical, but they are not:
* In religion, the god has the power to influence the world and the believer does not. It always comes back to convincing the god (e.g. via prayers and sacrifices) to help you.
* Whereas in magic, the believer himself is a wielder of the powers who influence the world. He does not depend on the goodwill of a god: The believer himself can do what a god can do, and whenever he decides to do so.




Magic is right there between religion and science! So how come nobody is arguing about whether religion or magic are correct?

[Cartoonist]

1. Magic doesn't exist

Turn Trump into a toad if it does.

[atreides1]

2. Magic doesn't work like that!

[Bretton Garcia]

4. Trump already is a toad. So how could we tell?

[marylandblue]

17. I'd rather we make a voodoo doll

and stick pins in him until he resigns.

[Bretton Garcia]

3. Religion came from magical ideas, said anthropology

They've thought for a long time that the original or Ur religion, was animism; the belief that what makes nature work,.move, were invisible spirits,.pushing, animating things.

So we got the idea of praying to, saying incantations to,. an invisible spirit, to heal our sick grandmother. Or asking the holy spirit it to do this or that. To give us the power to walk on water.

Or to exorcise evil spirits.

[trotsky]

5. Well, we know some religious people think magic is real.

They're so afraid of it, they won't let their kids read Harry Potter.

[Major Nikon]

20. Hocus Pocus must be given out in metered doses

Otherwise young minds can start conflating the delusions.

Unauthorized magic has always been a competing interest with organized religion. That’s why witches and mages were BBQed in the town square.

[NeoGreen]

6. Yep, It's Magic...

...

[NeoGreen]

7. Is this the real life?...No escape from reality...

...

(with Muppets)

Original:

[DetlefK]

8. Well... it's a kinda magic.

[NeoGreen]

9. Sorry...

...had to share/spread the earworm...my bad.

[Lordquinton]

14. Let it be known

Your pun was not unnoticed...

[Pope George Ringo II]

10. Religion is just a subset of magic.

How did the universe happen? Magic.
Who did it? A wizard of some sort.
What do we do when we want something? Perform a ritual asking an (usually) evil spirit for supernatural intercession.

Besides prayer, another type of magic where the caster doesn't actually power the results would be any kind of summoning where the creature does the summoner's bidding, perhaps in exchange for something.

[DetlefK]

11. There were some heretics who compared prayers to magic during the Renaissance.

However the church did not like such talk as magic was seen as something dangerous and corruptible by the devil.

In hindsight it's kinda funny to read how fervently and passionate the scholars back then argued back and forth about magic and prayers and astrology and the human mind and soul. How fervently and passionate they made arguments without any evidence to back them up.

[Pope George Ringo II]

12. Arguments over theology always remind me of the same thing.

[Act_of_Reparation]

13. Magic, eh?

Religion taps mountain. Casts Lightning Bolt.

[Bretton Garcia]

15. The "Magi" or wise men at the nativity, were magicians.

Giving their gifts to Jesus. Their name, root of our "magician," was Persian, Farsi, for all kinds of wise men. In the days of Jesus, they were often somewhere between magicians, witches, and scientists; playing around with chemicals and medical " potions."

Eventually these early, half-scientific, magical investigations, split apart; into real science. And bullshit. Or. .. religion.

[LanternWaste]

18. Or philosophy vs. science.

Or philosophy vs. science.

[Act_of_Reparation]

19. Unless the "philosophy" in question is religion...

...I've rarely seen philosophy and science opposed.

[DetlefK]

21. Philosophy is one of the fundamentals of science.

Science is based on certain philosophical teachings, such as there existing laws of nature and there existing a truth that can discerned via experiments and the human being able to conduct such experiments...