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MineralMan

(146,281 posts)
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 12:22 PM Mar 2019

There Are Many Negative "Human Characteristics."

Human beings are prone to doing any number of things that are not positive. Almost any activity that humans do that is harmful to others can be considered to be a "human characteristic." Murder, Stealing, Lying, Adultery, Avarice, Rape, Sloth...the list goes on and on. Lists of things people shouldn't do, but sometimes do, are a commonplace. You'll find them in societies' laws, religious scriptures, and books of philosophy.

The fact that an evil or harmful action is relatively common among human beings does not constitute an excuse for such behavior. It is not a defense of such actions. Most children learn that saying, "But Jimmy and Billy did it too," doesn't work on Mom. She knows that your nasty friends do things that are wrong, and wants you to learn not to do those things. Explanations that others do wrong things doesn't get you off the hook as a child. It shouldn't get adults off the hook, either.

Wrong actions are wrong, regardless of who does them. Pointing out over and over again that someone or some group sometimes does the same wrong things is not a valid defense, just because that wrong behavior is relatively common.

Sometimes, even people who hold positions of trust do wrong things. Sometimes, even people whose job it is to teach correct and proper behavior do wrong things. When that happens, we point at those people and call them hypocrites as a secondary charge that exacerbates their original wrong behavior. We expect those who are in positions of moral authority to behave better than the typical person. After all, they're telling us how to behave, so if they misbehave in egregious ways, we call such people hypocrites and condemn them in even stronger terms than usual.

Moral and ethical failures that harm people are indeed "human characteristics," because some humans sometimes do wrong things. That doesn't excuse those behaviors. Some things, like sexually abusing children, are always wrong. That people in all walks of life sometimes do such things does not moderate the evil that such acts are. Everyone who does such things is wrong to do them. Every last freaking time. It is even worse when adults in positions of trust who are supposedly moral leaders do such things. Pointing at others who also do such things does not alter the justifiable disgust we feel.

"Human characteristics" include the broadest possible range of actions taken by humans. As humans, we are perfectly capable of and entitled to call out behaviors that are "human characteristics" when they harm others, especially when the young and innocent are victimized.

There are no excuses for such behaviors as child sexual abuse. They are simply and universally recognized as wrong and deserving of our contempt and punishment. No quantity of whataboutism changes that. It cannot, or we have no standards at all. "But Johnny and Billy did it too" is a childish attempt to divert from wrong actions. Nobody buys that argument. Nobody should make that argument. It's a false argument and lacks logical merit.

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There Are Many Negative "Human Characteristics." (Original Post) MineralMan Mar 2019 OP
The Christian explanation... Karadeniz Mar 2019 #1
Abrahamic religions don't do reincarnation Voltaire2 Mar 2019 #2
Sounds like a form of reconstituted Gnosticism. marylandblue Mar 2019 #3
Reconstituted Gnosticism Karadeniz Mar 2019 #7
Knorr Instant Gnostic Soup! MineralMan Mar 2019 #10
Sorry, I've had it before. :) marylandblue Mar 2019 #11
Abrahamic religions Karadeniz Mar 2019 #5
They did not believe in reincarnation marylandblue Mar 2019 #6
Reincarnation Karadeniz Mar 2019 #8
I doubt that came from any reliable modern scholar marylandblue Mar 2019 #9
OK. I see... MineralMan Mar 2019 #4

Karadeniz

(22,486 posts)
1. The Christian explanation...
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 01:56 PM
Mar 2019

Most people struggle between soul and brain. The God system provides for as many incarnations into unclean flesh (swine) as needed for soul to dominate. Therefore, we are all at different levels of soul development when we enter this world. Some will assimilate soul/spiritual nature better than others (get the pay after working a short time). But for us all, we share the purpose of spreading godly values (working in the vinyard). This is how we "pay the debt to the last cent" that will get us out of the prison that human incarnations are to the soul. This is the Law (karma), not the Hebrew laws. A Christian assumes the responsibility of being God's agent in this sphere. Jesus does not teach vicarious atonement. Jesus's parables do not teach that the God/source intervenes in the physical realm. Jesus does not teach that your sins will be forgiven; he taught that you have to work off that debt. Faith will get you nowhere except as a springboard towards understanding.

There never was one Christianity. There were two levels, one for the "children" (beginners who had undergone an immersion ceremony) and the other, with far fewer numbers, for the initiated or those committed to initiation. (Their ceremony is referenced by Lazarus and the naked youth at gethsemane.) Eventually, the initiated were called heretics, but it is their God system which underlies the parables.

Voltaire2

(12,977 posts)
2. Abrahamic religions don't do reincarnation
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 02:14 PM
Mar 2019

so I have no clue what you are talking about with respect to christians.

Karadeniz

(22,486 posts)
7. Reconstituted Gnosticism
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 03:08 PM
Mar 2019

Exactly. I don't know if the Gnostics evolved from the original elite/select or if Paul's references to other, different teachers indicated that there were always differences in understanding the God system. We do know that Paul didn't entirely agree with Jerusalem headquarters. Even though there were eventually so many Gnostic sects, the core Gnostic God system underlies the parables. So much we can't be sure of.

MineralMan

(146,281 posts)
10. Knorr Instant Gnostic Soup!
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 03:35 PM
Mar 2019

Just add hot water to reconstitute. Try it. It's great! Really. The Instant Gnostic Soup is available only in some markets, though. For example, here's their German line-up of instant soups:



https://www.knorr.com/ie/knorr-products/quick-soup.html

Karadeniz

(22,486 posts)
5. Abrahamic religions
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 02:54 PM
Mar 2019

There may be more to Abrahamic religions. The Saducees, I've read, believed in reincarnation, as did the Essenes. If you don't understand me, I would suggest that dogma has replaced an in-depth understanding. I've been in lots of Sunday school classes and witnessed everyone trying to force a dogmatism interpretation onto the parables. It won't work.

Karadeniz

(22,486 posts)
8. Reincarnation
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 03:15 PM
Mar 2019

I've read many times that those two Jewish sects did believe in reincarnation back then. Also, Islam has some adherents to reincarnation.

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
9. I doubt that came from any reliable modern scholar
Mon Mar 4, 2019, 03:35 PM
Mar 2019

But as you said, there is so much we can't be sure of.

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