Religion
Related: About this forum'Where was God in Aurora?' comments show Internet as church for atheists
August 1st, 2012
12:03 PM ET
By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor
(CNN) – The Internet has become the de facto global church for atheists, agnostics and other doubters of God, who of course don’t have bricks-and-mortar churches in which to congregate.
We see this phenomenon in motion every day on the CNN Belief Blog, where atheists/agnostics/humanists are among the most zealous commenters.
Recent string of posts around the question of “Where was God in Aurora?” (such as this and this) drew especially large waves of comments that show atheists are using the Internet to commune with one another and to confront religious believers in ways that they don’t usually do in church.
Atheists and other secularists have offline organizations that stage in-person meetings – the Secular Student Alliance has seen its number of campus chapters quadruple in the last five years, to 368 – but the Internet has probably played a bigger role in the rise of the so-called New Atheism. The movement’s adherents evangelize their godlessness, just as many religious folks evangelize their God, often taking to the Belief Blog to do so.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/01/where-was-god-in-aurora-comments-show-internet-as-church-for-atheists/
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cbayer
(146,218 posts)about it.
I think we see that phenomenon here as well.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)I think it is a valid question for people of faith to consider.
As for the internet being the "church" of atheists or whatever, I think that is a very confused line of reasoning. The internet isn't a church of anything. The biggest difference between most churches and the internet is that the internet is many-to-many communication while a church is top down.
I'll stop there because I don't want to put more thought into this than the original writer did, and that wasn't much.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)of like minded people to have a place to gather. Calling it a "church" may be inflammatory, but I think his points are valid.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)a "closet atheist" who is seeking to be part of a group that reacts to churches.
Churches and atheism are separate, overlapping granted but separate, from spirituality. I think if one is pursuing a satisfying sense of spirituality then it MAY be helpful to put religion aside. Religion is about groups, rules, heirarchies, traditions, rituals and money -- all of those can be impediments to spirituality.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Some of the things that keep people in churches is the sense of community, the ability to share some ideas and debate others and the opportunity to be inspired. While some of the things you describe may be impediments to spirituality for some, for others it sustains their spirituality.
At any rate, I think the growth of atheist and secularist organizations speaks to the desire of some people to be a part of a community of like minded people. And many of these new organizations are rapidly developing their own rules, hierarchies, traditions, rituals and need for money.
As there are many believers who choose not to belong to any particular group, there are those kinds of atheists as well. But it's not true for all.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)and downright asinine. Why this desperate need for religionists to paint atheism as needing "faith", "belief", a "church", and all of the other trappings of religion, when none of it is remotely true? The only reason I can think of is that they know their own religion is ultimately indefensible from either a moral or intellectual perspective, so they try to paint those they perceive as their critics with the same brush, hoping that it will serve as a deflection.
cindyperry2010
(846 posts)but man's capacity for evil against each other is everywhere and seen everyday. my theory (strange i know) is that hell is on earth and we have our own chance to redeem ourselves from it by acts of kindness and decency to and for each other eveyday. where we go after we die or what happens i do not know but we have to make the best of what we have now.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)
trotsky
(49,533 posts)despite being shot down and mocked for it every time, anti-atheist discrimination is real. Confronting religious believers, even just admitting our atheism, can have serious real-world repercussions like loss of relationships, jobs, or worse.
Is it any wonder, then, that many of us embrace the Internet as a public forum where we can finally speak our opinions about religion and religious beliefs without (significant) fear of retaliation?
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)It isn't. The Internet isn't our "church."
And I really dislike the phrase "doubters of God." It assumes that God is real and we just don't really think so (but probably secretly do believe).
humblebum
(5,881 posts)
dmallind
(10,437 posts)humblebum
(5,881 posts)pretty cut and dried to me.
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)later in the article. In doing that, he's trying to tie atheists to another group the fundamentalist Christians despise. Would that fundamentalists would take Jesus' words to heart and go into their own closets to prey (spelling intentional, of course).
Isn't it fun to find atheist-bashing stuff on the internet and then post it without any comment? I think that's fun for you. You get all the bashing without any effort on your part. Bravo, rug, bravo! Plausible deniability...what a concept.
rug
(82,333 posts)My, I've never seen you so sensitive.
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)I'm an atheist, albeit not an evangelical one. It's really interesting that so much attention is paid to the tiny percentage of people who have no belief by the huge majority that do. And you're right there, seeking out writings about that very thing and posting them here on DU. I'm not sensitive, at all. I just find it interesting, and like to point out interesting things to people.
Am I an "out atheist?" Not really. I don't volunteer the information except in places where it's being discussed. If someone asks, I'll tell them, but if it doesn't come up, I don't. I'm typical, I think, of the majority of atheists. It's not a belief, after all. It just is. I'm not a "New Atheist" either. I became an atheist in 1965. That was a long, long time ago. At 67 years of age, I'm pretty much an "Old Atheist."
rug
(82,333 posts)I find atheism interesting but not nearly as interesting as religion. As to posting what I find interesting, why not? There are at least as many atheists here as theists. I find that interesting too.
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)Being 67 is not particularly significant to me. I'm still able to do all the things I ever did, albeit a bit more slowly sometimes.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)bashing article at all. He seems very supportive overall.
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)two different positions. We often seem to be doing that. But you didn't post the article, so I'm not really talking about you, anyhow.
Most atheists aren't asking the question, "Where was God in Aurora?" Why would they? Atheists don't have to ask that question. It's a meaningless one, really.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)It is a way of asking religionists "If the god you believe in really existed, wouldn't you expect him to prevent tragedies like this? Doesn't the fact that they happen all the time tell against him existing, at least in the way you claim he does? What is there about Aurora that looks any different than you'd expect a world without you god to look?"
MineralMan
(146,284 posts)crack, the article begins with the often-stated nonsense about atheists needing an equivalent to a church. That's patronizing. We don't need any such thing. My fellowship is with my friends and acquaintances, most of whom hold some religious beliefs. Like most atheists, I'm not looking for a group of atheists to associate with, nor do I know any atheists who are.
The author also implies that we really do believe in some sort of deity, but that we're not willing to admit it. That's insulting. I would not say that a religious believer is just an "atheist in waiting." That would be insulting. Some believe; some do not. Some can believe; some cannot.
You don't think it's an atheist-bashing article. It is, though. If you substituted the word "gay" for atheist in that article and posted it on DU, you'd hear from the LGBT community quickest. But, my beef is not with you, anyhow.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)
dimbear
(6,271 posts)Look, we're all sophisticates here. We know that the word "evangelize" means "to spread the good news." Atheist don't have good news for anybody. We don't believe there is any magical force looking out for us, and we believe that when we're dead, we're actually dead.
Far from good news, it's a dare to live your one life in reality.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)When there are those who are telling believers they should leave their churches, that they are delusional, that their lives will be freer and more real if they give up religion, that might meet the definition.
dimbear
(6,271 posts)neutral terms rather than charged terms. Or was the original author just trying to get nonbelievers to bristle?
Mysteries......
cbayer
(146,218 posts)It is provocative and either meant to be so or just careless.
The rest of the article seems to be very understanding and supportive of atheists, so it comes across as confusing.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Telling someone to leave their church is attempting to convert them to atheism? Baloney. I would love for every liberal Catholic to leave their church - and then do whatever the hell they want. Join the Episcopal church. Meditate on Sunday mornings. Sleep in. Don't give a flying fuck. I want that corrupt evil old institution to change or die, and getting people to leave and stop giving it their time and money is going to be the most effective way.
The other items you mention could easily apply to ANY situation in which one person is trying to influence another. I.e., ever heard of something called politics? Everyone on this board is then attempting to convert others to another political POV, by merely advocating their own.
No, it seems you have specifically intended your post to accuse atheists of the "same" behavior as annoying, proselytizing Christians. Why is that?
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)I know lots of atheist, agnostics, pagans and the not-sure-what-I-think crowd who hang out at UU churches for discussions and activities.
That's a real church and a real denomination.
www.uua.org
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I actually never thought to ask that question before. I don't see how anyone can answer it, so it is kind of a non-starter of a question.
As to the internet being like church, I had no idea that you could get porn and streaming movies at church. Or look up recipes, or go to message boards, or play video games. So, I might have to check out this church thing. Except for the porn, I am not into that. But, whatever floats yer boat.
And as for trying to convert people. I never have. But, then I am not like a pure atheist. I believe there is more that we don't know than we do know. But, I definitely don't think any religion has a clue about what started the universe, what started life on earth, or what happens when you die. It sure isn't anything like what religious people think of that I am certain.