Religion
Related: About this forumHa Ha Ha! Take that, atheists! Cee-lo Green rewrites John Lennon's Imagine!
Checkmate, atheists!
Old version:
Imagine there's no countries.
It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for.
And no religion too.
Cee-lo's new and improved version:
Imagine there's no countries.
It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for.
All religion is true.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/camelswithhammers/2012/01/01/john-lennon-did-not-imagine-that-all-religion-is-true/
MarkCharles
(2,261 posts)ONLY god-believing people can take the lyrics of a popular song and change the words to suit their own agendas, and get away with it legally when performing on national television networks with millions of viewers.
Yes, this shows how reversing the meaning of composers is perfectly acceptable among those believers in a god. Just throw out the philosophy of the composer, in an attempt to convince the world that John Lennon really believed "all religion is true". Amazing!
DESPICABLE, in my opinion.
dkf
(37,305 posts)To take someone's work and say the opposite of what they meant is not okay. If it were satire maybe, but this obviously isn't meant to be funny.
It's like rewriting the ending of someone else's book.
tama
(9,137 posts)Turning every incident of disrespectful stupidity (and worse adjectives...) by a "believer", this case by Cee-Lo, into general attack against ALL believers:
"ONLY god-believing people"
"among those believers in a god."
MarkCharles
(2,261 posts)seems to believe in a god.
Show me an atheist that ripped off a popular song from the Beatles or a classic of Beethoven to make his self-centered point.
Better still: tell us why no Christian in this nation is standing up in protest over this outright theft of an artist's original work.
tama
(9,137 posts)about whether he believes or pays lip service to... ehm... dunno what. And don't really care, funnily it's Satanism of sorts: I first read the idea "To each as he believes" in Bulgakov's novel "Satan comes to Moscow", and that was charming Satan's solution to believes about after life.
I'm not Christian and I'm not speaking for them and hope that you don't expect me to. My point was simply that firing a full side against all religious people because of an incident ("anecdotal evidence", if you like) is not very productive in any way. You would and do take offense if all atheists were accused because of one atheist (e.g. Stalin, brought to my mind now by Bulgakov), and correctly so.
rug
(82,333 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Well, if incidents "of disrespectful stupidity " weren't so common among believers then....
It's the arrogance that we'd all just nod in agreement with something so unthinking, phony, absurd and just plain wrong that is so annoying.
What next? A death bed conversion of Lennon in the ambulance story?
And speaking of Imagine...
Imagine the outcry if some half ass rapper had sung "Darwin loves me, yes I know, Origin of Species tells me so..." sans satire on national television.
Cut the poor put upon theists crap.
dmallind
(10,437 posts)...and several interchangeable hero archetypes were born around the winter solstice. Not to mention that spells and curses work, golden tablets need to be read inside hats and only 144k virgins will make it to heaven. But hey some can god about on their own planets. It's all true after all.
onager
(9,356 posts)Wow! ALL religions are true! What an exciting theological concept. This might be the biggest breakthrough since the idea of Limbo. Or something.
According to the internet, artists are always requesting permission to change the lyrics of "Imagine." Generally to "one religion too." And in the case of One Nation Under Jebus, of course, that means THE Real 'Merican religion of Michelle Bachman, Tim TebLow, G.W. Bush and Billy Graham. No off-brand religions need apply.
Requests to change the lyrics are always denied and the artists are told if they want to use the song, it will be performed exactly as written. There was one exception nobody seemed to mind - in the 9/11 concert of 2001, Neil Young changed "Imagine no possessions/I wonder if you can" to "I wonder if I can."
moobu2
(4,822 posts)then none of them are true or else they would have killed each other off eons ago.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 1, 2012, 05:20 PM - Edit history (1)
I submit, "For God so hated the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall perish and not have eternal life." Pretty much what Cee-Lo did.
Your move, theists.
Anyone who thinks as you are satirizing that this is a blow to atheists is just deluding themselves. This changing of lyrics was ridiculous and an insult to John Lennon.
Edited to: make my intent more clear and make me sound like less of a dumbass (and I didn't even drink last night).
cbayer
(146,218 posts)pokerfan
(27,677 posts)but I guess I should have used the smiley:
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)My response was not to you but those thinking what you were satirizing. My bad in not making that clear. I know who you are.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Nothing is coming across as I intend.
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)humblebum
(5,881 posts)else regardless of what Cee-lo Green did.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)I make a pretty pointed responses to Green and tried to show that what he did would look like from the other side. Didn't say I believed it--just making a point.
Yet you need to say that I would attack theists for no reason whatsoever.
humblebum
(5,881 posts)Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)That makes me feel so much better.
humblebum
(5,881 posts)you feel better.
deacon_sephiroth
(731 posts)<3
Dorian Gray
(13,479 posts)allowing Cee Lo singing this was an affront to all the listeners on top of John Lennon's legacy. It was a travesty.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)was aware of the change prior to it happening.
Neil Young also changed the words to this song in a 9/11 concert, though I don't remember hearing all that much about it.
John Lennon's position on religion and god changed a lot throughout his life. I think it still remains unclear as to where he finally stood at the end of his days. The internet, of course, is full of debate about this. Many people have strong feelings about what he did or did not believe, but the definitive answer remains murky (at least to me). Whatever it is, he was clearly not a fan or organized religion.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)The song is clearly about the problems/vices of human organizations of which Lennon clearly includes religion.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)But this is certainly not the first time someone has done something like this for any number of reasons.
I just don't think it's a really big deal.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)and this is not aimed at you specifically, is one of privilege. It takes a song that speaks clearly to those that see problems with religion and turns it into a song about how religion can be awesome. That those that believe don't see a problem with it or don't see it as a huge problem comes from, imho, a position of privilege. Of course it doesn't seem like a big deal to one who believes because it changes it to comport with that belief structure. The only reason I think this is having such a good deal of traction is that Green screwed with a Lennon song which not only pisses off the atheists, but the Lennon fans.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I heard a great deal of parody of religious songs on Sirius during the holidays (I think it was a show on the Loft, which is a great channel, BTW). However, your point about positions of privilege making a difference is a good one.
If he were uncomfortable with the lyrics as written, he probably would have been wise to choose a different song.
At any rate, what he changed it to is really confusing to me. I honestly don't know what he was trying to say. I can't really fathom that he thinks all religions are true, but maybe he does. And this from a guy who's one hit has been, "Fuck you", lol.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)I don't think atheist positions (if we are OK calling Lennon's position that realizing the debate about where he landed on this issue) are immune from satire and I rather enjoy satire.
From what I saw of the Twitter wars over this, he seems to be trying to say he wants a world where everyone is free to believe whatever they want (though I'm not sure how those lyrics reflect that--though we can agree that the poetic prowess of one know for "Fuck You" probably isn't epic).
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)It is?????
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1094
The above doesn't touch on live performances though...
Another quote I found about Imagine from Lennon Legend: An Illustrated Life ...:
http://bit.ly/zGitOT
cbayer
(146,218 posts)justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)It seems she always trots out when there's big media hype about something pertaining to John. So, I think her silence says a lot... either she doesn't intend to reply or she's crafting a reply that doesn't anger anyone.
stlsaxman
(9,236 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)onager
(9,356 posts)Maharishi: "Boys! Boys! What's wrong? Why are you leaving?"
Lennon: "If you're so fucking cosmic, you'll know."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-512747/Lennon-right-The-Giggling-Guru-shameless-old-fraud.html
The Lost John Lennon Interview With Tariq Ali and Robin Blackburn, 1971:
At one time I was so much involved in the religious bullshit that I used to go around calling myself a Christian Communist, but as Janov says, religion is legalised madness...
I had to do (therapy) to really kill off all the religious myths...you are forced to realise that your pain, the kind that makes you wake up afraid with your heart pounding, is really yours and not the result of somebody up in the sky...
As I realised this, it all started to fall into place. This therapy forced me to have done with all the God shit...
Most people channel their pain into God or masturbation or some dream of making it...
But for me at any rate it was all part of dissolving the God trip or father-figure trip. Facing up to reality instead of always looking for some kind of heaven.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2005/12/08/the-lost-john-lennon-interview/
LAGC
(5,330 posts)Wish I could K&R your post.
struggle4progress
(118,204 posts)pokerfan
(27,677 posts)and he's free to do what he wants of course. I personally loved it because it was a perfect illustration of how petty and small-minded some people can be.
LeftishBrit
(41,202 posts)Last edited Tue Jan 3, 2012, 07:46 PM - Edit history (1)
Once this taken into account, people IMO have a right to convert a song into something more relevant to their own views, and frequently do. For example, 'This Land is Your Land' is or was sung in Canada as:
'This land is your land
This land is my land
From the Great Lake waters
To Vancouver Island...'
The hymn 'All Things Bright and Beautiful' is nowadays usually sung without the horribly class-ist verse:
'The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate.
God made them high or lowly
And ordered their estate.'
Certainly John Lennon might not be too pleased at having his song thus altered by religious types; but Woody Guthrie and Mrs. Alexander the hymn writer might also not be too keen on the alterations above.
I am focussing here just on altering the spirit of songs; if there is plagiarism and intellectual property theft here, then it's more serious obviously. I don't know what the legal standing is.
This all reminds me of a 'Virtual Hell', which was on the web about 10 years ago; I haven't been able to find this particular one recently. It included a lot of cartoony characters in the flames because they hadn't believed in 'the real Jesus' and warned that 'Imagine' was the theme song of Hell! Yikes...
ETA: I think the changes are idiotic and mess up the whole point of the song - just saying that it's a fairly common sort of thing.
MarkCharles
(2,261 posts)parallel than atheism and theism, don't you think?
I think any American would be happy to give a salute over to any Canadian for the wonders and the beauty of that part of the North American continent.
Come to think of it, I have been kind of high up north in British Colombia, way down south in Dixie, even down to Key West, way up north in Newfounland, and even down to Acapulco, then to the Gaspe' penninsula. The North American continent should have been joined into one nation with England, France and Spain and maybe even Portugal figuring out how to join with the first nation people, with the Native Americans, and how to make the most of this wonderful place on the planet, and share it with the rest of the world.