H.P. Lovecraft explains why I love religious cults:

[ZombieHorde]

“Bunch together a group of people deliberately chosen for strong religious feelings, and you have a practical guarantee of dark morbidities expressed in crime, perversion, and insanity.”

I am more of a socialist than an anarchist, but I believe crime, perversion, and insanity definitely have the potential to be beneficial to the "human spirit."

[darkangel218]

1. HP Lovecraft writings are not to be taken seriously, from a religious or occult standpoint.

He coppied the main ideas from the Sumerian mythology. He was a fiction writer.

I'm guessing religious cults were both amusing and inspirational to him.

[ZombieHorde]

2. I agree with your reply. I don't take his stories as revelation or anything similar,

though that quote doesn't come from one of his stories.

However, the quote still explains my love for religious cults, even the quote is meant to disparage religious groups.

[cbayer]

3. I don't understand what he is trying to say here.

I looked, but couldn't find any further explanation or specific examples of what he is talking about.

Is he referring to communities like Jonestown? How is crime, perversion and insanity potentially beneficial to the human spirit?

[ZombieHorde]

4. Lovecraft was a "new atheist."

One of the reasons I don't like the term "new atheist" is there is nothing new about it. There have been outspoken atheists for at least hundreds of years.

Crime, perversion, and insanity are pretty broad terms. Mugging someone for meth money, raping a dog, and clinical depression are not most likely not going to uplift the "human spirit."

Consider one of DU's favorite criminals, MLK. Few of us would argue that his crimes did not uplift the "spirit" of liberty-loving people around the country.

Occupy Wall Street was/is a criminal movement which seemed to me to uplift many people. They were even making music and dancing, creating art, and connecting with each other in seemingly meaning ways, all while bringing attention to an issue they were passionate about.

On a lesser and more personal scale, crimes such as marijuana or LSD use, when used willfully and reasonably, has uplifted many people.

Perversion, when done thoughtfully and with love, is definitely uplifting. I'm not sure how graphic I can be here on DU, so I won't go into any details.

By insanity, I don't mean clinical insanity, such as real paranoia or hard-core OCD. I mean letting go convention, tradition, and common sense in favor of adventure, pleasure, and excitement.

You do all three when you get high and dance naked with a safe group of people. A truly uplifting experience.

[cbayer]

5. That's a helpful explanation.

I'm not sure that I agree with your definitions of criminal, perversion and insanity, but if the examples you give are what he meant, the quote makes more sense. It's harder for me to separate out these things, particularly perversion and insanity, from their clinical definitions, so I would likely call them something else.

Now, as to getting high and dancing naked with a group of people, those days have passed for me. I am, however, very uplifted by similar activities with an individual who I am devoted to.

But I still don't see how this ties into religion or cults. Whether he is an atheist or not seems to have no bearing on what you describe.

[ZombieHorde]

6. The Lovecraft quote was meant as a critique of religion, but one person's sorrow is another person's

joy. I think there is a time and a place for crime, perversion, and insanity.

I am not saying all criminal behavior is good, but some crimes, such as the crimes of MLK, are wonderful and uplifting, in my opinion.

I just think we should keep an open mind about breaking laws, cultural norms, and tradition.

[cbayer]

7. I agree with you about breaking cultural norms and tradition, and my lifestyle

pretty much bears that out.

Laws, on the other hand, need a strong motivating reason, imo. Not talking about going over the speed limit or smoking a joint, but bigger things. I might go to jail for an important cause, but not for something that doesn't mean much.

[darkangel218]

8. Aleister Crowley thought the same as you.

"Do what thou wilt is be the whole of the Law"

[ZombieHorde]

9. The O.T.O. is one of my favorite cults.

I have been a member for over a decade.

[darkangel218]

10. Ive studied them from afar, as long as Dragon Rouge and many others.

It's a lot to learn from being a member I guess. I just couldn't and cant deal with any type of organized religion. I have my own mind, my own spirit, my own way of reaching transcendence.
All groups/cults do is impose norms, and like you said, norms are to be "broken".

[ZombieHorde]

11. The norms the O.T.O impose I had already long excepted.

The imposed norms are equality and tolerance.

Then there's some vows to keep the initiations secret, help out other members if you can, and stuff like that, which I have no problems with.

Each individual O.T.O body will then have its own culture. Some O.T.O groups I don't care for, but it's pretty easy to just avoid their events.

I'm a pretty skeptical person, and I debated with many of the members on things like astrology, and all but one member was very cool with my skepticism. His day job was to charge sick people for magical healing sessions, and I accused him of being a charlatan who took advantage of the desperate. He didn't like that at all.

Some members had little to no interest in any of it, but just enjoyed the parties.

[dimbear]

12. Lovecraft was a wonderful writer, but a flop as a human being, IMHO.

He despised religion in general, which is odd when you consider how heavily his writing is influenced by the King James Bible.

Not a sterling role model for coping with reality. Another must to avoid for life advice: Robert E. Howard.

[ZombieHorde]

13. Even "great" people had their faults.

MLK was an adulterer and Gandhi was a wife beater.

I don't view anyone as model to live my life by.

If I like something, and find it useful, I will use it regardless of the source. There are some Charles Manson quotes that I absolutely love and try to keep in mind, but I don't view him as a good role model.

[dimbear]

14. Crypt of Cthulhu Journal by Robert M. Price...........

http://crypt-of-cthulhu.com/

(Price, the former minister now general font of info on theology and Lovecraft.)

I agree that the great often have their faults, except of course for you and me.

[ZombieHorde]

15. Ooohhh, I bookmarked that page.

I agree that the great often have their faults, except of course for you and me.

Of course!