Father James Martin on Jason Collins: Loving means accepting a person as God created him

[xchrom]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/01/father-james-martin-on-jason-collins-loving-means-accepting-a-person-as-god-created-him/



Father James Martin praised NBA player Jason Collins in glowing terms on Wednesday for becoming the first active professional athlete to come out as gay. His comments provided a sharp contrast to the chorus of Christians who have publicly denounced, downplayed, or dismissed Collins’ sexuality.

“There are many times that Catholics are called to support their gay brothers and sisters wholeheartedly,” he wrote on his Facebook page. “This is one of them. All of us are created by God, and all of us have an undeniable and unassailable human dignity. And part of that dignity is accepting that you are a beloved creation of God.”

Martin noted that “coming out” was often a difficult process that was rife with psychological distress and interpersonal conflict. But he said accepting one’s sexual identity was necessary for “spiritual wholeness.”

“The public honesty of people like Mr. Collins may be especially important to gay and lesbian young people, who sometimes experience a deep sadness and crushing isolation around their identity,” he continued. “As most of us know, they are far more likely to consider suicide, thanks to the often overwhelming social pressures that they face.”

[LostOne4Ever]

1. Need more Catholic priests like him!

Its good to see priests like Father Martin rather than bigots like Bill Donohue.

Further, he could recieve payback for taking that stance making him that much braver. Bravo

[xchrom]

2. +1

[okasha]

4. Good for Father Martin.

He's willing to speak truth to power.

[trotsky]

3. The official Catholic Church position on homosexuality, IIRC...

is that it's fine to be gay, but you just can't be in a committed, sexually active relationship. I.e., the same old "Love the sinner, hate the sin" crap we see from so many religious types.

While this priest's message of tolerance is fantastic, I see nothing that deviates from the RCC party line, unfortunately.

[rug]

5. It also says a straight person should not have sex outside a sacramental marriage.

[Humanist_Activist]

6. Don't pull that bullshit, your church also doesn't recognize same sex marriages, effectively, the...

only good gay is a lifetime celibate gay. Doesn't help that your church treats it as a disease or disability, so to be properly condescending and "sympathetic".

[rug]

9. That's fact not bulshit.

[Humanist_Activist]

13. You are just excusing your church's homophobia when the fact is they don't...

treat homosexuals and heterosexuals the same, but are discriminatory and bigoted.

[rug]

14. Don't tell me what I'm doing. You're not qualified.

If you paid attention at all while you were in "your" former Church, you'd know it disapproves of sexual activity by anyone outside a sacramental marriage. Maybe that position had a hand in your departure.

[Humanist_Activist]

15. Of course that had a hand in my departure, so did their position on contraception, LGBT rights...

choice, etc. When it comes to your church, I oppose damn near everything your church stands for, for a reason, most of what it stands for is evil, barbaric and primitive.

[rug]

16. I meant hand in an entirely different sense.

Your posting style resembles it closely.

[Humanist_Activist]

17. I don't know what you mean, why not explain it to me like I'm five? n/t

[skepticscott]

20. Because he'd rather

engage in passive aggressive horseshit. It's his intellectual stock in trade.

[rug]

21. And this post is fine example of it.

Feel free to talk to me directly, scottie, if you have anything to say.

[skepticscott]

22. Says the poster

flinging veiled insults and smears. Why not try being direct yourself, instead of slithering?

Go ahead...say what you really meant in post 16...if you have the courage and honesty to.

[rug]

23. Says the poster child for toxic posting.

These posts are better suited for a circle jerk behind closed doors for like-minded people.

There's nothing productive about them.

How's that?

Don't forget to post the results of your alet.

[skepticscott]

24. Still afraid to be honest..what a shock

That's not remotely what you meant when you said this:

If you paid attention at all while you were in "your" former Church, you'd know it disapproves of sexual activity by anyone outside a sacramental marriage. Maybe that position had a hand in your departure.

I meant hand in an entirely different sense.

But keep lying, ruggie..Jesus loves you for it.

[rug]

26. Keep shilling, scottie.

No one loves you for it.

[skepticscott]

27. By "no one" I expect you mean

you and your ilk don't.

I can live happily with that.

[rug]

28. Lol, "your ilk".

Go play now.

[georges641]

33. LOL

[2ndAmForComputers]

56. Let's follow some logic.

"it disapproves of sexual activity by anyone outside a sacramental marriage"

PLUS

"it doesn't accept marriage of same sex couples"

THEREFORE

"it demands that gay people, unlike straight people, be lifetime celibates."

If there's something wrong in the above logic, kindly point out what.

[rug]

57. Thw first sentence (mine) has an adjective the second sentence (not mine) does not have.

See if you can find it.

It absence creates a third sentence (not mine) which does not follow.

[2ndAmForComputers]

58. Is the second sentence false, then?

[rug]

59. The better question is does the church have anything to do wih civil marriage.

The missing word is important.

[2ndAmForComputers]

60. It seems to believe it has.

All you have to do is google "catholics against gay marriage".

[rug]

61. Or you could read Canon Law.

[2ndAmForComputers]

62. I'd rather pay attention to what people are doing.

"By their deeds you shall know them" and all that.

[rug]

63. It's a good thing there's a link to the article in the OP.

[2ndAmForComputers]

64. Yeah, that guy said that, therefore the results of the aforementioned googling don't exist.

Yawn.

[rug]

65. Seek and ye shall find and all that.

[2ndAmForComputers]

66. My seeking was way easier than yours. Not much of a "seeking" actually.

[hrmjustin]

7. It is a start.

[trotsky]

8. As I noted, it's the same position the RCC has held for quite some time.

Being gay is fine as long as you don't have sex. Historically, the RCC has implied that the proper course of action for a gay man is to become a priest so that celibacy will "solve" the problem.

[georges641]

30. Celibacy is the proper course.

For any unmarried person, according to Catholicism.

It's not easy to be a catholic. It requires discipline and denial. We are called to "carry the cross," and not be ruled by sexual desires.

I've never heard that gay men are supposed to become priests. Do you have a source for this assertion?

[trotsky]

37. Yes, I'm well aware of the anti-gay Catholic dogma.

Heterosexual couples have the option to "legitimize" their sexual relationship via a sacramental marriage. Your church does not, and does not intend to, provide this option to homosexual couples. I believe this is wrong and bigoted. Progressive Catholics seem to just shrug their shoulders and continue to toss money in the collection plate.

Here's a link to the information you requested:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gay+men+are+supposed+to+become+priests

[trotsky]

40. Your church treats homosexuals differently than heterosexuals.

That much, anyone can understand.

And what's obvious to everyone else who isn't busy trying to desperately defend it, your church IS a political organization that actively seeks to influence policy in governments around the world.

I'm sorry you don't like having to deal with these realities, but at least I don't have to call you names to make my point. I guess Jesus wants you do to that?

The bottom line is, as a homosexual male in the Catholic church, you can't have sex outside marriage, and you aren't allowed to get married, so logically being a priest has been encouraged. I have no idea how many priests are homosexual, nor do I think that has anything to do with the horrible levels of pedophilia in their ranks. But the fact remains that the only way to remain a Catholic in good standing if you're a gay man is to be celibate.

And a "progressive" Catholic is someone who believes themselves to be politically progressive but chooses to continue giving their time and money to one of the largest institutions actively working AGAINST the progressive agenda.

[georges641]

42. Correct--no sexual relations outside of marriage for a Catholic.

I called you an "ass" because you behaved like one with that link. If it was meant to be a joke, then, sorry, I shouldn't have said it. I probably shouldn't have said it anyway, though.

No practicing Catholic may have sexual relations outside of marriage. There are many "restrictions" on heterosexuals as well. No pre-marital sex. No adultery. No abortions. No use of contraception. No masturbation. No going to strip clubs or watching porno movies. ETC.

There are many heterosexual Catholics who cannot have sexual relations because they are single and cannot find a partner, are divorced and cannot get remarried, have an illness that precludes it, or simply choose to be celibate. I have lived many years as a celibate married heterosexual because of an illness. It's a challenge, but not the end of the world. There is so much more to life than sexual gratification, and from a Catholic perspective, the world puts that high on a pedestal as if it is a god.

But yes, you are correct, for the homosexual Catholic, there is no alternative but a life of celibacy. That in no way means that homosexual males would be more inclined to be priests, though.

If you understand the totality of Catholicism, you understand this concept and accept it, hard though it may be to live it out, though EVERY Catholic has their own particular crosses and struggles. If you're on the outside looking in, then you're seeing the issue out of context and through the eyes of politics, and doctrine is of God and not according to where our passions would take us.

[trotsky]

43. Bottom line is, heterosexual Catholics are allowed to be in a committed, sexual relationship.

Homosexual Catholics are not.

No one has to understand the "totality of Catholicism" to recognize that this is inherently unfair and bigoted. That's certainly within the right of your church and its parishioners to be so, but the rest of us get to call it as we see it.

[georges641]

46. I could explain it thoroughly.

But my explanation would be deleted.

So I'm afraid you'll continue to be in the dark, but the upside is you found a way to justify your anti-catholic bigotry.

[trotsky]

47. The Catholic church treats homosexuals differently than heterosexuals,

and you're OK with that, but I'm not. And I'm the bigoted one.

I have a feeling I know why your explanation would be deleted.

[rug]

48. It's good to get confirmation.

[ButterflyBlood]

49. Thanks for reminding me why I left

I new that my progressive views didn't fit in with the Catholic Church and I never could be there. I could follow Jesus or follow the Vatican hierarchy, but not both. I made my decision, and it was one of the best I ever made. Rather than lie and pretend to be a "progressive Catholic" and belong to the same organization as you, and give tacit approval of the disgusting bigotry so far away from the message of Jesus you and the Vatican promote, I voted with my feet.

[Meshuga]

41. What is wrong with sexual desire?

Why should two consenting adults suppress it?

[trotsky]

44. Because the church tells them they have to.

It's all about control.

[Meshuga]

45. I agree

And I kind of (emphasis on "kind of&quot feel sorry for someone who suppresses natural and healthy human feelings for the supposed "well-being and salvation of our souls" since that is all done in vain.

Not that I think people should be irresponsible about sex (we should all seek a healthy sex life caring for our health and respecting our partners and ourselves) but why pay such a huge price as not living life and fully enjoying it responsibly?

Giving up your autonomy to a non-responsive invisible being is absurd.

[okasha]

10. Like the unauthorized ordination of women

to the priesthood, this mirrors the change from within that trnsformed the Episcopal Church. It will be interesting to see how far the RCC follows the pattern.

[hrmjustin]

11. If you look at the clergy the priests in the RCC are more liberal than the bishops.

Maybe the bishops should listen to their priests.

[okasha]

12. And so are the laity,

who have been ahead of the curve for decades.

[skepticscott]

18. If they were truly "ahead of the curve"

they wouldn't still be members and supporters of a medieval organization.

[georges641]

32. This isn't the laity I know.

Being "heterodox" is not to be "ahead" in any way. The Catholic Church exists to save souls and not to cater to the whims and desires of anyone. We are a fallen and broken people with inordinate proclivities and desires. The job of the church is to help transform us and help us dominate our passions, not to validate them.

[skepticscott]

19. And where do the bishops come from?

Gee...from the ranks of those same priests, by golly. What does it tell you about the deep culture and mindset of the RCC when things get more conservative and intolerant, and not less, as you go up the ladder?

[hrmjustin]

25. There are always conservative priests. The vatican wants them in charge to tow the line.

[georges641]

31. No it's not liberal and conservative

The Catholic Church is not a democracy and you are using political terms.

[hrmjustin]

34. Let us be hnest that their are a lot of liberal priests out there.

Not all priests do as the Vatican says. They have free will.

[georges641]

35. They are not free to make up their own religion.

If they do, then they are heretics and/or schismatics, and no practicing Catholic should pay any attention to them. They should be shunned and their bishop should be informed and pressured to removed them.

Let them start their own religion if they like. They are free to do that. But it is wrong for them to go against Church doctrine and present it as if they are speaking in the name of the Church.

[hrmjustin]

36. Your too rigid my friend.

Following every rule the church makes is boring.

[georges641]

38. LOL

So boring that it gets one booted out of a group. So it was nice knowing you in the Catholic group, and I expect my loyalty to Catholicism will likely get me booted off the entire board, so if I suddenly disappear, it's not because I ran away from a discussion. And thanks for your civility towards me.

But the rules wouldn't be there if they were not important.

And sadly, it is so much more than "rules," but the rules are there for our well-being and salvation of our souls--not to make our lives miserable.

[hrmjustin]

50. You haven't been booted from the Catholic Group.

Did the hosts say you were booted.

[trotsky]

51. He's been booted from DU entirely now.

Good riddance to an anti-gay bigot.

[hrmjustin]

52. Good!

[hunter]

53. Not the first time he's been booted from DU, I think.

And for the same reason.

The saddest thing to me is that his anti-gay bigotry, his quest for an absolute authority, and his obsessions concerning sexual "purity" seems to be the force that brought him into the church.

[trotsky]

54. Let me just say how proud I am to have been insulted by him.

I will wear it as a badge of honor.

Definitely some issues with that one, though. Disturbing.

[hrmjustin]

55. He was really scary!

Said the church could not make mistakes. Could not think for himself.

[okasha]

67. Good grief.

Why not just bring out the grill lighter?

I hate to break this to you, but some of the most progressive Catholics I know are Jebbies and Marists.

[hrmjustin]

68. George was sent to the land of PPR.