God vs Allah

[ErikJ]

This is an email I got from a RW Christian fundamentalist. I say the Christian God and and Allah are the same thing and that fundy Christians and Muslims believe in the same values (pro-life, anti-gay, pro-gun, pro-death penalty etc) so they are spiritual brothers and sisters. And she emails me back this tirade:
---------------------------------------
ARE YOU DAFT??? Do I have to draw you a picture??? Let me see if I can find one to send you. You sound like a toddler who finds it impossible to understand English.

PLEASE LISTEN!!!

We are NOTHING alike no matter how many similar practices we have.

THERE IS ONE CLEAR AND CRITICAL DIFFERENCE:

Muslims do NOT worship GOD!!! They worship ALLAH!!! Allah and God are polar opposites. One is GOD, the other is a figment of their imagination. "He" is a myth!!! "He" doesn't exist!!!

Have you got it now??? IT DOES NOT MATTER IF WE ARE IDENTICAL TWINS. IF we don't both worship God, we do NOT have the same beliefs!!! We are NOTHING ALIKE!!!

Muslims will kill you if you say you're a Christian in the middle east. How is THAT for "being alike?" THEY certainly know Christians are NOT LIKE THEM!!! Why can't you get it???
-----------------------------------------------

I'm agnostic, but I always thought God was basically the Creator and sustainer of the Universe which I would assume be the same in both religions. I dont know if she tuly understands Allah means God in Arabic. What would be a good way to respond? Besides take a chill pill that is.

[rug]

1. Allah, The One, and God are the same but we're all pretty dense.

Sometimes it reminds me of the blind men describing the elephant.

[Walk away]

2. People are always accusing me of acting superior because I'm an Atheist....

[Newest Reality]

3. How does one resolve disputes over higer order levels of abstraction?

Where does one get the ideas to which one becomes beholden by hearsay and belief? Does it come naturally, like sweat from the brow on a hot day, or is it a matter of influence based on someone's revelation?

Does the assumption that the Universe has to have been created require the creation of a Creator to answer a question that creates its own answer?

Things could very well just be and the reason for everything could be every thing in itself and every moment is just as it is with no discernible beginning or end that relies on our verbal constructs where we divide everything up with subject/verb/object and expect that to be actual. We analyze and dissect events and things that, upon further inspection are, at the very least, one, continuous and smooth, unbroken flow.

There is something blurred and indistinct
Antedating heaven and earth
How indistinct! How blurred!
Yet within it are forms.
How dim! How confused!
Quiet, though ever functioning.
It does nothing, yet through it all things are done.
To its accomplishment it lays no credit.
It loves and nourishes all things,
but does not lord it over them.
I do not know its name,
I call it the Tao.
-Laotse

[No Vested Interest]

4. No Bible scholar here, but didn't the Jewish people

use the term "Yahwah" or "Jehovah" for God?
God is an English word derived from the Germanic tongues, I believe.

As I understand it - again I'm no expert- but Judaism, Christianity and Islam are regarded are the three monotheistic faiths, as opposed to Hinduism -many gods, Buddhism - no divinity, and others.

It is true that Muslims, though acknowledging Christ, do not believe in the divinity of Christ, so Christianity is very different from Islam in that respect.
Jews mostly recognize Christ as an historical figure, but not the Messiah, as christians claim.

Someone more knowledgeable can clean up where my thoughts above are a little off kilter.

Have you ever noticed that so often arguments or disagreements comes down to semantics, language differences, rather than arguments over definitions?

[MADem]

5. You cannot fix stupid.

However, here's how to put it, simply:

Muslims worship the God of Abraham/Ibrahim.

So do Christians.

So do Jews.

Yahweh, Allah, Jehovah, Elohim, Adonai, The Lord, God...pick one. They all mean the same thing--it's like Mary in English is Marie in French and Maria in Spanish...same name, in essence.

Abraham is the dude who 'recognized' that there was one God, not many. All the major monotheistic religions give him a nod.

The stupid dolt should also realize that Muslims recognize Jesus (they call him Isa) as a prophet who delivered the word of God to the Christians--just not as The "Peace Be Upon Him" MAIN Prophet. The messenger to Muslims is Mohamed.

They also regard the old and new testaments as 'holy books'--just not quite as important as Qu'ran, which holds pride of place in a Muslim household.

People who are religious, who recognize the God of Ibrahim/Abraham, are called "People of the Book" by Muslims--they aren't "infidels." If a Christian or Jew dies and is buried in an Islamic cemetery, they get the same burial, only they are buried on their left side, facing away from Meccah.

[skepticscott]

11. So why do you characterize

someone else's deeply and fervently held beliefs as "stupid"? Some on this board would take great pleasure in labeling you as a bigot for that. At least if it were THEIR deeply and fervently held beliefs you were calling "stupid". Other people's are apparently fair game.

[MADem]

13. The person isn't holding a "deeply and fervently held belief."

The person is not understanding the very essential founding tenets of a belief system that they purport to uphold, of a faith that they claim membership in.

Surely you understand the difference, if you just take a moment to think about this issue in the full context in which it is being discussed. Here, let me break it down for you in a single simple, easy comparative sentence:

You can't make up your own rules when you play Monopoly, or baseball, or poker, either.


It's not "bigotry" to note that someone isn't following the rules of the game they are playing, or the faith they are following.

This woman is not following, nor understanding, the "rules" of the Christian faith she purports to profess. Out of solid ignorance or her own bigotry, she didn't learn or retain the history of the establishment of her own belief system.

Do you understand now? I've tried to keep it plain and simple, so there would be no confusion.

[goldent]

30. "You can't make up your own rules when you play Monopoly, or baseball, or poker, either."

This is true if you are talking about an organized league. But there are things known as "house rules" in all of these games, and it is not good form to go to someone's house and tell them their house rules are wrong. I always think of this when I see Atheists on this site tell people that they are not "true Christians" because they do not believe something or another.

[MADem]

37. Thing is, if this woman writing this bigoted remark looks in the rule book, it is going

to tell her that she's got it all wrong--it's in there even if she doesn't bother to read it.

All these teams, even the ones playing by "house rules" have their own rule book, and all of the books say the same doggone thing about Abraham/Ibrahim and his "One God."

She can consider herself a practicing (fill in whatever religion or faith group), but her understanding of the theology of her faith is imperfect, because that's a foundational aspect.

Or, she's stupid and/or bigoted. Whichever fits, I guess.

[goldent]

54. I get what you are saying from a broad theological viewpoint

and if she were a academic-type theologian she could have a conversation about it. But practically speaking, you rarely get very far telling people what their religious beliefs are (or should be). IMHO, I would say she has a unique perspective and leave it at that.



Edit: Remove extra extraneous word

[MADem]

56. I don't disagree.

It's possible to sometimes shame folks into just stopping with the intolerance like that by suggesting they talk about Abraham/Ibrahim with their pastor/preacher/minister/priest/Imam/rabbi/what-have-you if they don't believe what they're being told...

They won't back down with the person they're throwing their bigotry at, but they'll probably shut up about that whole "My God--THEIR "g"od" game...because unless they go to a church with a totally stupid and uneducated religious leader (and most of them have had some education--even if it's rather pedestrian and literal) the leadership will be able to show them the chapter and verse!

I will admit I don't have a lot of patience with people who are being mean just for shitz-n-giggles, like this emailer in the OP is; which is why I find it worthwhile to challenge their meanspiritedness and hit them with their own "Good" Book...and a couple more, to boot.

[skepticscott]

31. I understand perfectly

You've resorted to the tired old NTS argument in maintaining that this person's understanding of HER Christian faith is inferior to yours and deserves to be belittled, and that her beliefs are not truly or legitimately Christian as compared to those of others.

And actually yes...you CAN make up different rules and still have a game qualify as "poker", "baseball" or "Monopoly". Do five card draw and seven card stud have different rules? Do new variations of poker emerge with me rules that someone "made up"? Of course they do. What set of immutable "rules" were laid down 2000 years ago that had to be followed exactly and for all time in order for someone to qualify as a "Christian"? Please, enlighten us, be specific, and cite your sources for these "rules". And note that any reply which dodges this request for evidence will be dismissed as hand-waving horseshit.

Was that really all you had? Seriously?

[MADem]

36. Yeah, surprise, surprise--you're looking for a fight. "Was that really all you had? Seriously?"

You can make up different rules, but you don't play by different rules at same table, on the same field, or with the other players who are playing by a different set of rules and know and understand what's going on.

You play PASSWORD while everyone else is playing SCRABBLE; see how long people want to hang out with you. The answer is "not long."

Kinda like now.

Have a nice day.

[skepticscott]

45. Well, yeah..you do

Protestants made up new rules right in the face of those that Christians had been adhering to for over 1000 years. Did that make them into non-Christians? No. And neither is this person you dismiss as "stupid" because her take on her faith differs from yours any less a "Christian" than you or anyone else. But hey, your attitude is what's characterized religion for many ages, so don't feel too badly.

And yes, your post is dismissed as hand-waving BS. Kinda figured you'd make things easy.

[MADem]

48. But Protestants don't make up a new rule about what Abraham said.

So take your weak little "hand waving" argument and use it on yourself.

It's not a "take"--it's a foundational premise.

"Kinda figured you'd make things easy." You just can't help yourself, can you?

[skepticscott]

61. And if Christianity or even this discussion

were only about "what Abraham said", then your point might have a glimmer of relevance. Sadly for you, they aren't, and, the only hand-waving here is yours, since you clearly have no answer to any of the real points I made.

And if you'll review your own posts, you'll see that it was you and not me that injected condescending snark into this sub thread (and managed to make yourself look foolish in the process to boot).

Still waiting for you to lay out for us those "rules" of the Christian faith that you ranted about above. Tick tock.

[Igel]

34. Eh. That's for purposes of missionary work.

As soon a they're done saying they're the same god, they point out how they're rather different gods.

Muslims like to say they're the same god because then there's less persecution, or perceived persecution. Until there's a nice majority, then you pay a price for having an inferior revelation. Meaning that the same god decided to have a variety of revelations that rather contradict each other.

Christians are the same way with Jews. It used to be easier, until Christians undertook a series of renovations with their God and came up with Deity v1.0, v2.0, 3.0 and the latest, an open-source-code Deity called pangod v??.

Let's have a parallel. Do you know John? Sure. Most people know John. (If you don't know John, Chris, Rob, or Tyler will do. Most know at least one. I'll assume you know John.)

Now, you may think that we know different Johns. But they're all the same. Human. Two legs, two arms. Uses speech. See. Same dude.

Then again, the John I know has hair about 8" long on his head, weighs 135, is 45 years old, an engineer, white, about 5' 9". And wears glasses. Speaks only English, if you call his dialect "English." I call it Bostonian. I'm betting your John has slightly different properties.

But they're the same John. Part of the ur-John, the one John that we all know. I know one aspect. You probably know another aspect. But, really, they're the one John.

Now that you're convinced they're the same John, let me tell you that my John thinks that you really have to be Catholic and straight to be a decent human being. And watch Doctor Who. Now, there's the same John, there's only one, and do you want to go against the One John?

Replace the details for Allah, one of the many versions of the Xian god, or even one of the Jewish gods. There are far more Xian gods than Jewish gods, but there are several Jewish ones. It's not the word applied to it; it's not the assertion that there can be only one. It's the properties that count. The details. If I have a paisley sofa and yours is black leather, they're different sofas, even if they're the same size and shape.

My Xian God isn't the same one that Baptists worship, or Catholics. Sorry. Let's not even talk about Allah. However, my God overlaps a bit more with very Conservative Orthodox Jews' god of choice. Still, they'd deny they're the same one, and in the end I'd probably agree.

[MADem]

35. What you are saying is just blatantly untrue from a theological standpoint.

I'm not talking about people with an incomplete understanding of their own faiths, who are unschooled, or who are bigoted and/or stupid, I'm talking about the theology of the religions at hand.

The God of Abraham IS the same God of Ibrahim--why?

Because Ibraham/Abraham is the same doggone guy who stood on the rock and made the declaration.

Bill Clinton isn't Barack Obama--he's Bill Clinton, and that's who he'll always be. He won't be Abraham Lincoln or Warren G. Harding, either.

Abraham/Ibrahim was himself and no one else, and he said what he said--it's one of the few things that the three major religions agree upon.

[Phillip McCleod]

58. you use the word 'theology' as if that should be impressive and give weight.

it's not and it doesn't.

[MADem]

60. Well, no.

I used the word "theology" because I figured most people here have at least an eighth grade education and understand what the word means. This is the "religion" group, too, not Sports or Showbiz. Anyone posting in this group who doesn't have an idea what the word means has likely taken a wrong term.

It's not a "big" word at all, it has a fairly obvious root, but if you're having trouble, hit an online dictionary.

[Voice for Peace]

52. Socrates was convicted in part because of his one god ideas

[MADem]

57. He's not in any of the "Good" books, though.

You're not going to make a sale with the bigot emailer in the OP, or anyone else who subscribes to any of the three major monotheistic faiths by quoting him!

[dimbear]

6. Just think of the Hebrew root El, which is used to end so many angel names.

Michael, Gabriel, Uriel, and so on. Meaning "of the Lord." It's easy to see the small linguistic steps that take one from El to Allah.

Elohim is a very very interesting word, BTW. Gallons of ink have been spelled explaining why it's not plural although it has a plural form. You guess why.

[CJCRANE]

7. Jesus worshiped "Allaha" (Aramaic for "God")

and Arab Christians use the term "Allah" for God too AFAIK.

In Hebrew the words seem to be "El", "Eloah" and "Elohim".

So Jews and Muslims use a name for God that is much closer to the one that Jesus and other Middle Eastern prophets used.

These christian fundies somehow forget that the Torah/Bible/Koran and the Abrahamic prophets all came from the Middle East.

The word "God" wasn't used until the 6th century to describe El/Allaha, until then it was used to describe pagan "gods". It's a Germanic word and there's no German in the Bible.

[skepticscott]

10. But of course, Christians

have the ingrained certainty that THEIR "god" is "God", the one and only true.

[hrmjustin]

66. Christians are not the only one.

[dimbear]

69. So true. They all make the same claim. You pays your money and you takes your chance.

It's like the lottery.

[aristocles]

8. Correction: Christians worship three gods

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

And Carholics, by their doctrine of transubstantiation, are cannibals.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. Actually Catholics worship a whole pantheon of gods.

And all of the abrahamic religions believe in an array of supernatural entities, worshiped or not, that make their belief system monotheistic only if you squint.

[rug]

15. Oh really? Please do list, say, six from this pantheon.

[aristocles]

16. Roman gods whom Catholics made saints...too numerous to list here, but see the link

See the list: http://christendomsfolly.xanga.com/768199159/item/

[rug]

21. If that were true, you've contradicted yourself.

Catholics do not worship saints.

If you're trying to say Christianity has appropriated from other religions, e.g. certain saints, that's an entirely different statement.

What types of peculiar sites are you dredging for this stuff?

[aristocles]

22. I was raised a Catholic

Polish on my mother's side, Sicilian on my father's side.

Both the Polish and the Sicilians worship the saints, not venerate, but worship.

[rug]

23. Your family may, or you may believe they do, but "the Polish and the Sicilians" don't.

Nor does any Catholic who understands sainthood.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/saint-worship

[Warren Stupidity]

26. So you are reduced to the no true Catholics argument.

Explain what angels are.

[rug]

41. Well, Warren the question was put to you and you still haven't answered.

Rather than respond to your usual NTS shibboleth, let me point out the flaw in your use of it. The fact is, when you have an established body of opinion and someone states a completely uninformed and incorrect version of it, that formulation is wrong no matter what the person says he is.

An angel is a messenger. Do you know where the word evangelist comes from? I'll give you a hint; the prefix comes from eu.

[goldent]

32. This is news to me

I know plenty of Polish Catholics, and none of them worship saints.

To be fair, it is a common misconception among non-Catholics.

[Walk away]

38. So do the Irish. They build cathedrals to them, they pray to them,

they wear talismans with their "likenesses" on them. Everyone knows the Catholics had to repurpose all of those pagan gods and goddesses into "saints and Mary". Add them to the Father/Zeus/Juno and the Son/Adonis and that Bird God (what's up with that?) and you get the Catholic pantheon.

Most religions pilfer from the ones before them but Catholicism stole from anything and everybody. The bizarre drinking of blood and eating the body rituals straight out of the Golden Bough's description of Warrior Cults from Northern Europe to Southern Africa are a stunning rip off!

I guess they had to please all of the people all of the time to get the big numbers and bucks.

[rug]

44. Ok, you agree with the broad brush of Poles and Sicilians and now you want to include "the Irish".

I'll wait until you bring up Mexicans.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Everyone knows the Catholics had to repurpose all of those pagan gods and goddesses into "saints and Mary". Add them to the Father/Zeus/Juno and the Son/Adonis and that Bird God (what's up with that?) and you get the Catholic pantheon.

No, everyone does not know that. Why don't you post a link to whatever sewer of a website you got that from? I'm sure everyone there may agree with you.

Your ignorance of anthropology offends me more than your ignorance of Catholicism.

[Walk away]

47. Are you actually denying that the basis for christianity is the Adonis myth?

What is your problem with world mythology? I am an ex Catholic and any college in the country teaches comparative religions. If you think that Cornell University and The New School of Social Research are sewers then you must be something special .

The religious are really wrapped too tight!

[rug]

50. Uh, yeah.

There's nothing wrong with world mythology. What's wrong is trying to squeeze it into your own peculiar world view.

Yeah, I went to the New School on 12th street as well. I paid attention.

Now, how about some links or cites? Let's do some social research.

[Walk away]

68. If you feel the need to spin your wheels go for it.

I find the Byzantine era primitive and boring in comparison to the remarkable and beautiful Classical era it replaced.
I feel the same way about Christianity and Catholicism. They sucked all the magic out of the world. They are the least interesting mythologies. Now that I am not forced to study them I don't.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. Mary, plus pick 4 from your favorite angels, saints, etc. plus the great satan.

[rug]

42. Ok, now show me where they are referred to as gods.

Your ignorance on these subjects is matched only by your eagerness to publish it.

[Warren Stupidity]

62. They aren't officially. You know that.

They are however worshiped. You cannot seriously make the claim that the RCC did not incorporate indigenous deities and their assorted festivals and practices into the church. It is simply a fact that assorted roman gods and their festivals made their way into the early church. Later, assorted south american and african gods made the same journey. The Eastern Church has a very similar story.

For example: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130512-vatican-santa-muerte-mexico-cult-catholic-church-cultures-world/



Where I live it is common to see "bathtub madonnas" decorating a yard. Good Catholics worshiping "the virgin mother".

Ever been to an Italian street fair? That ain't Jesus being paraded down the street.

[rug]

63. Ah, they're not "officially" gods. Ok.

Seriously, there is a diffence between worshipping a god and a particular devotion to a saint. When you mix in syncretic practices as in Santeria you're looking at something entirely different. Your picture illustrates one of those.

[Warren Stupidity]

64. My original claim still stands: catholicism has a pantheon of deities.

Officially acknowledged, officially worshiped, or not, the religion has a tripartite chief god, and a pantheon of lesser supernatural beings, many of whom are 'venerated', 'worshiped', 'celebrated' officially or otherwise, in ways essentially indistinguishable from predecessor animist and polytheistic religions.

[rug]

65. No it doesn't. It acknowledges one God only.

Try as you may, it does not preach demigods and demigoddesses. It doesn't preach genies either.

You can persist in this belief if you want to but it doesn't hide its teaching on saints.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04171a.htm

[Warren Stupidity]

27. Here, perhaps a picture might help.

[rug]

43. I'm sure you know Botticini was depicting the communion of the saints.

Do you know what that is?

Here's a picture for you.



You have much in common with Jack.

[rug]

14. I have never seen so much ignorance is so few words.

Google trinity and transubstantiation before repeating it.

[aristocles]

17. From the Wikipedia article on transubstantiation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation


In Roman Catholic theology, transubstantiation (in Latin, transsubstantiatio, in Greek μετουσίωσις metousiosis) is the doctrine that, in the Eucharist, the substance of the bread and the wine used in the sacrament is literally, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but in actual reality as well,[1][2] changed into the substance of the Body and the Blood of Jesus

[rug]

19. Keep reading.

The distinction between "substance" and "accidents" - the latter term is not used in the Catholic Church's official definition of the doctrine[10] but has been used in the writings of theologians - arose from Aristotelian philosophy, but in Roman Catholic eucharistic theology is independent of that philosophy, since the distinction is a real one, as shown by the distinction between a person and that person's accidental appearances.[42] "Substance" here means what something is in itself, its essence. A hat's shape is not the hat itself, nor is its colour, size, softness to the touch, nor anything else about it perceptible to the senses. The hat itself (the "substance&quot has the shape, the color, the size, the softness and the other appearances, but is distinct from them.[43] While the appearances, which are also referred to, though not in the Church's official teaching, by the philosophical term 'accidents', are perceptible to the senses, the substance is not.[44]

[aristocles]

24. Simple sophistry and hocus-pocus

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

From Gibbon:
The Oriental philosophy of the Gnostics, the dark abyss of predestination and grace, and the strange transformation of the Eucharist from the sign to the substance of Christ’s body...

And the footnote on this:
The learned Selden has given the history of transubstantiation in a comprehensive and pithy sentence: “This opinion is only rhetoric turned into logic,” (his Works, vol. iii. p. 2037, in his Table-Talk.)

[rug]

39. Why don't you post the link then?

Or, I could just engage in the same name-calling.

Uniformed predigested talking points. How's that?

Or, your posts have all the charm of Sam Harris combined with the scholarship of Jack Chick.

Let me know which way you want to go.

[aristocles]

18. Edward Gibbon from the preface to "History of Christianity"

"If Paganism was conquered by Christianity, it isequally true that Christianity was corrupted byPaganism. The pure deism of the first Christians[belief in only ONE God]...was changed, by the Churchof Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of theTrinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by theEgyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained asbeing worthy of belief."

[rug]

20. Next time put a link.

The doctrine of the Trinity is the Christian belief that:

There is One God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The Trinity is a controversial doctrine; many Christians admit they don't understand it, while many more Christians don't understand it but think they do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/beliefs/trinity_1.shtml

[goldent]

33. The problem with transubstantiation

is that it is very metaphysical and most people are very literal about things (particularly critics of Christianity who generally interrupt the Bible in a very literal way). I find it hilarious that given all of the beliefs of Catholicism, that its critics focus so much on transubstantiation.

[Bad Thoughts]

12. Would you make a Yankees fan root for the Red Sox?

Just because the concepts have ontological similarities doesn't make them interchangeable. By claiming that they are the same thing, you are giving your friend the ability to deny the relationship between them.

[MADem]

28. No--that's not it. God and Allah and Yahweh, etc. are all "baseball."

Jesus is the Red Sox, Yaweh is the Yankees, and Allah is the Tigers. The fans root for their own prophet, according to which one they like the best.

The teams all operate UNDER the "God of Abraham/Ibrahim"--the God/Allah/Yahweh descriptors are synonyms, used by the teams, for the same thing. It's as if each team had their own little word to describe the sport of baseball.

[Walk away]

40. That would be so if baseball was all in your mind and the teams were...

invisible. You would have to believe whatever the announcer said while he was calling games that you can never see or prove exist.

[MADem]

49. There are people who specialize in philosophies that will tell you that baseball, and your reality,

are all in your mind.

But that's a bit far afield from the rather specific and limited discussion surrounding this OP.

You could ask the OP writer to provide you with the woman's email address; perhaps she'd be interested in having a discussion with you about the very nature of belief. I'm pretty sure her POV is that both baseball and her deity exist, so she might not want to take you up on that.

[goldent]

29. Funny - this is EXACTLY the same thing I thought...

People who don't understand baseball and baseball fans are best not to give advice to fans about the logic of who they support.

[aristocles]

46. Well this was fun

Arguing about things having absolutely no meaning. Completely pointless. Void of content.

Ooh yeah, ooh yeah, nothing really matters, anyone can see
Nothing really matters nothing really matters to me
Anyway the wind blows...

(Link to Bohemian Rhapsody deliberately omitted.)

[Voice for Peace]

51. try the socratic method

ask her questions, don't try to convince her of anything.

[Deep13]

53. "God" = 6 of one. "Allah" = half dozen of another. nt

[LiberalAndProud]

55. Doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy?

"ARE YOU DAFT???"
================

Still there is an interesting conversation to be had here.

Both religions do claim the "One God".

Is it the same God? I would think so, because -- there is only one. or is it two?

Biblically, Abraham sired both Isma'il and Jacob. Sarah was Abraham's wife, mother of Jacob. Hagar was Abraham's concubine, mother of Isma'il. Sarah was jealous of Hagar, so Abraham moved Hagar and Isma'il to the Ka'bah where Isma'il continued Abraham's religion, now known as Islam. Abraham, Sarah and Jacob stayed in Canaan and also practiced Abraham's religion, known today as Judaism.
So we are told that both religions have a common father, Abraham.

And then there is this:

Deuteronomy 6:4
[font size="1"]Darby Bible Translation[/font]
Hear, Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;

[font size="1"]English Revised Version[/font]
Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD:

[font size="1"]World English Bible[/font]
Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is one:

Quran 112
"In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate.
Say (O Muhammad) He is God the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone."

So, do I think Muhammad and Jesus were talking about the same idea? Yes, I do. At least, Allah and the Christian God are closely related -- like half-brothers. It seems your friend would disagree. I would be interested in understanding why. Does the friend believe that Allah is a false God? or might it just be a divergent understanding of the one God?

If you care to pursue this conversation with your friend, send her a hug from me. She's right. Listening is important. Sometimes it's difficult to hear through all the YELLING.

[muxin]

59. It's much like talking about Christians version of Jesus and Muslims version of Jesus

Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God and one part of the trinity, while Muslims believe Jesus is just a prophet and a human.

Both recognize the same figure only with different characteristics, same with God & Allah, same figure but different characteristics.

[hrmjustin]

67. Same God, just different ideas of what God is.