"Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol."

[laconicsax]

I was reading an article about a Missouri teen who murdered their neighbor and found this statement by them especially ironic:

I just fucking killed someone. I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead. I don't know how to feel atm. It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the "ohmygawd I can't do this" feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol.

I have to wonder how they reconcile their actions and their religion.

[shraby]

1. Probably never crosses the demented mind.

[msongs]

2. or many other minds for that matter nt

[Ecumenist]

3. Honey, for her, church was as important as the local Circle K

EVIL and she should NEVER see the light of day again. PERIOD

[laconicsax]

4. How do you know it wasn't an important part of her life?

I'd appreciate it if you could drop the condescension too.

[Ecumenist]

5. There was no condescnesion meant. The very fact that she could write what she did about MURDERING

A 9 YEAR OLD GIRL, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE and then flippantly talk about going to church finishing with a LAUGH OUT LOUD...are you seriously trying to imply that church meant something real to her? REALLY??!! Don't waste my time overreacting to the opinion of a fellow Duer AND a believer...

[laconicsax]

6. Sorry for forcing you to read this thread and respond to it.

[Ecumenist]

7. You didn't force me to read what I THOUGHT was a very interesting thread about someone

MURDERING A 9 YEAR OLD anymore than I forced you to respond with an ignorant and mean spirited answer.

[laconicsax]

8. Stay classy, Ecumenist.

[Ecumenist]

9. Right back atcha, Laconic

[darkstar3]

10. That's an assumption on your part.

You can't possibly know just how important church was for her. And assuming that a person for whom church was important couldn't do this is fallacious.

[Ecumenist]

11. Are you serious? REALLY?? BY YOUR WORKS THEY WILL KNOW YOU....I attended

church, went to Christian schools and NEVER.WOULD.HAVE.THOUGHT.TO MURDER.A.9.YEAR.OLD.GIRL! That's kind of what being Christian is all about, you know, caring for your fellow human being. That little flippant comment about going to Church and adding the lol, says all it needs to say. Hold your opinion if you will but doesn't take rocket science to see that. Good grief.

I had a cousin MURDERED by a creep like this sociopath and once you've met people like her and hear similar comments, you have no doubt where these people stand. For most people, it an abstract and theoretical opinion for the family of Elizabeth and people like me, it's not a joke or a hypothesis.

[skepticscott]

12. Ah, of course...this person was not a "True" Christian

because No True Christian would ever do such a thing. In fact, No True Christian would ever do anything bad, because gawd told them they shouldn't, right?

So what was that whole "forgiveness of sins" thingie for, anyway?

[darkstar3]

15. Do we still have an NTS pool?

3's a winner...

[PassingFair]

13. Wow. This may surprise you, but almost ALL PEOPLE don't murder 9-year old girls.

Whether they are religious or not. That's kind of what being HUMAN is all about, you know, caring for your fellow human being.



Was Andrea Yates not a "Christian"?

[darkstar3]

33. I AM serious. Are you?

Can a Christian murder someone, yes or no?

[cleanhippie]

17. There is no way for you to make that assumption.

It's total ignorance on your part to do so. Your repeated use of the NTS fallacy, even though you have been shown exactly why it is fallacious, is just willful ignorance on your part, and as a result, your posts have lost any and all relevance

[Ecumenist]

22. Yeah, looking at that elephant that she wrote in her diary doesn't tell me anything...

Don't care what you say, it couldn't have meant anything real to her for her to be so flippant after MURDERING A 9 YEAR OLD GIRL IN A HEINOUS FASHION and saying "it was pretty enjoyable"! END OF STORY, for me at least.

[Goblinmonger]

24. Maybe you don't understand the Scotsman fallacy

because you did it again.

Why does her murdering someone disqualify her from being a Christian and being real about her church going? Is/was every person who murdered someone immediately no longer a Christian? Is there anything "bad" a Christian can and still be considered a Christian in your eyes?

[Ecumenist]

27. You know what? I am never going to change my opinion and I never sid that she was no longer a

Christian ...I question if she was really ever...Just because someone goes to church DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE A CHRISTIAN. end of story.

[cleanhippie]

30. If someone says they are a Christian, are they a Christian?

Why or why not?

[Ecumenist]

32. I can say I'm blonde and unless Ihave a meeting with L'Oreal, I would be lying...

Lots of people CLAIM to be and clearly aren't. Look at MANY right wing "Christians" who lace their "christianity liberally with racism and hatred. Are honestly Christians? I not going to debate the point further...It's pretty clean cut and straight forward. As I said before, I lost a cousin to a so called Christian who tried to rationalise the fact that he murdered my cousin, BRAGGED about it BUT commented that he went to church regularly. Just because I go to the airport doesn't make me a pilot.

[darkstar3]

34. But in the case of "blonde" or "pilot" we have globally accepted parameters to define what they are.

In the case of "Christian," that's not quite true. The only parameter that is common among Christians is self-identification. That means that in order to say that somone else isn't a Christian, you have to redefine the word on an ad hoc basis using your own terms and biases.

That's why it's fallacious. You've come up with a restriction, or parameter, that is based on no fact whatsoever, but rather your own emotional response.

[Ecumenist]

35. Whatever, your opinion and you're welcome to it. Ib have my opinion and am not going to change it

or argue it...PERIOD.

[darkstar3]

36. If you don't want to change or argue your opinion, then why did you post in this thread?

And BTW, the post you responded to is fact. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. Do a little study on the No True Scostman fallacy and you'll realize why.

[Ecumenist]

37. i didn't post to argue WITH YOU or anyone else. The OP asked the opinion regarding the criminal

sociopath.... you really don't matter in the greater scheme of things. that's important to you but not me. I'm finished talking about a girl who wholeheartedly deserves the death penalty.

[darkstar3]

38. That sounds remarkably like you want the abilty to express your opinion

while keeping it free from discussion. How exactly do you expect that to work on a discussion board?

[Ecumenist]

39. We are free to discuss whatever we FEEL LIKE DISCUSSING AT LENGTH WHATEVER

decide to..what with it being a free country and all. I am NOT obligated to argue with anyone. I am free to post my opinion and pick and decide what I WANT to discuss cuz guess what? It's not a CLASS where I am required to do that.. Wasn't aware that it was a prerequisite of being a member,,, ..Now, I must be off.. Got to fly out tomorrow to the cancer center to get a pesky chemo treatment...

[cbayer]

45. Hope your treatment goes well and that you come back soon.

You don't have to take the bullying you know. Just walk away.

[skepticscott]

47. Oh, please...

Read this person's posts and tell us with a straight face that she's been treated with anything like the kind of hostility that makes her responses appropriate. I'm sure you'd like to have everyone questioning anything she says just shut up and go away while she rants on in a ALL CAPS frenzy, but ask yourself what this board would be like if everyone responded the way she did, and then tell us why you approve of it in her case. Ask yourself honestly if she has raised or lowered the level of discourse here. Then tell us.

[cleanhippie]

48. You devalue the term "bullying" when you use it like this.

As well as devaluing those that really are the victims of bullying. You really shouldn't be so flippant about such a serious topic.

[darkstar3]

46. Discussion is a two way street.

I don't see that happening here. I see you expressing an opinion in a heated fashion, and then yelling at people who respond to that opinion with questions or criticism. You'd have done better by ending your first post with "and fuck you if you disagree with me," and then not responding at all. At least there wouldn't be any confusion about whether or not you were in a discussion, and your blood pressure might be lower.

[Goblinmonger]

40. I'm sure your Jesus would want her put to death, too.

Oh, wait, I don't think the death penalty is supported by "real Christians."

[Ecumenist]

41. I'm not going to justify that assinine comment with a response...

Have a good night Goblin

[darkstar3]

42. You mean like that one?

Have you ever heard of Poe's Law?

[Dorian Gray]

50. Who knows what Jesus would have advocated?

I am a human being with my own instincts. My initial reaction is a viscerally strong one: "She's a sick fuck who deserves the worst punishment possible." Would Jesus approve? Probably not. I am human, however, and I'm prone to thoughts and feelings that are not 100% positive and pure and good.

Now, when I read the OP, I read her comments about going to church as sort of a mockery/ironic take on it. Of course, I'm bringing my own baggage to that interpretation. Is she a "real" Christian? Who the hell knows? If she believes that Jesus is her Lord and Savior, then sure. But she's still a sick fuck. And she deserves the maximum punishment by law.

[Goblinmonger]

51. That is not my point.

My point is that someone who is vocally and emphatically telling others what it means to be a Christian is spouting some pretty controversial views which conflict with a lot of Jesus' teaching and certainly don't reflect an attitude of forgiveness that seems to be central to the message of Christ. My point was that her same tactic was easily used against her.

I wouldn't take "lol" as a sign of mockery. It could be, but as someone who teaches high school, they use it ALL the time and often it means nothing.

[Dorian Gray]

52. I think that

I'm pretty laid back about letting people define themselves when it comes to their religious beliefs. Sometimes I get inspired to respond in these topics, though, and while it was your post that I hit respond on, I think that it was the whole of the thread that I was actually writing my thoughts to.

[rug]

14. It's more a matter of of how they reconcile their actions and their meds.

Drivel.

[cleanhippie]

18. Except when the action is a "good" one.

THEN their religion played a starring role and was the root cause, right?

[rug]

23. Maybe in your head it does.

Fortunately I don't live there.

[cleanhippie]

25. It is fortunate that you don't live in my head.

If you did, you just might learn something.

Come on back when you are ready to have a discussion, rug. This routine has become tedious and boring.

[rug]

26. No room.

[cleanhippie]

28. No discussion.

[rug]

29. Thank you.

[cleanhippie]

31. Your welcome

[cleanhippie]

16. The same way everyone reconciles their actions with their religion.

They just find a part they can interpret in a way that is beneficial to them and voila! Absolution!

[MarkCharles]

19. One has to wonder what goes on in parents' minds to...

force this young sociopath to go to church, and yet to have ignored all the sickness within her.

Did they think that Christianity would cure her? Don't they also need a psych exam to figure out how they raised a monster? Or will they just pray away their blind spots?

[dmallind]

20. Well unless I'm missing something we haven't the slightest idea.

This kid could be anything from a devoted junior Christian soldier who loved all things churchy to a virulent anti-theist who is simply used to being dragged to church by parents for whatever reason.

Her words don't help us. She killed someone and has to go to church now. Her actions don't help us. Plenty of ardent Chrsitian godbotherers have killed people in ways just as or more gruesome. Plenty of kids with different or no religious beliefs are forced to go to church, and they've been known to butcher folks too.

If she's going to church willingly, then presumably she's relying on the "out-clause" of repentance, and perhaps even relying on one of the many injunctions to slaughter various groups of undesirables (witches, say) for her crime

If she's going unwillingly her attendance could be anything from irrelevant to the trigger for seething resentment that drove the knife hand. Who knows? Only the perp at this point.

[cbayer]

21. Good points. A lot of assuming going on here.

[ButterflyBlood]

43. Sure sounds like a rational, sane human being to me

Obviously anyone who would murder someone and write about how they enjoyed it is going to make a lot of sense. : :

[laconicsax]

44. To be fair, except for the subject matter, it sounds like any random excerpt from a teenager's diary

I think the real question is what she would have written if she did it now. Can anyone honestly say that they were the same person at 18 that they were at 15? Most 15-year-olds are far from rational beings.

She obviously deserves some time in an institution, be it penal or psychiatric.