Catholic diocese of Gallup, N.M., to file for bankruptcy

[Eugene]

Source: Reuters

Catholic diocese of Gallup, N.M., to file for bankruptcy

By Mary Wisniewski
Tue Sep 3, 2013 11:16pm EDT

(Reuters) - The Roman Catholic Diocese of Gallup, New Mexico, plans to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy this month to cope with mounting costs of litigation arising from claims of child sexual abuse by members of its clergy, the church confirmed on Tuesday.

The Gallup Diocese, which includes several Native American reservations, would become the ninth U.S. diocese or archdiocese to file for bankruptcy protection since 2004 in financial fallout from child molestation cases against the church.

Child sex abuse litigation has cost the U.S. Catholic Church some $3 billion in settlements in the two decades since the ongoing scandal erupted with a series of molestation cases uncovered in Boston in 1992.

In a letter read to parishioners over the weekend, Gallup Bishop James S. Wall denied that the diocese was filing for Chapter 11 "to avoid responsibility for what happened or to hide anything."

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/04/us-usa-church-abuse-idUSBRE98304G20130904

[TheMastersNemesis]

1. Maybe They Should Just Dissolve The Diocese.

They are not relevant anymore anyway.

[cbayer]

2. Yeah, maybe your organization can step in to provide all the social

services that the diocese provides in the area.

You do have an agency that can pick up the slack, don't you?

[atreides1]

3. Yeah and maybe the diocese should have thought about that...

...before they felt it was more important to protect the pedophiles!

You know the child molesters wearing priestly garb?

[cbayer]

4. Not excusing what they have done in any way.

Just objecting to the suggestion that they be dissolved because they don't do any good things.

[trotsky]

6. Maybe if the taxpayer funds given to Catholic Charities were given to other groups,

they could?

I don't know why you have this libertarian/religious streak that government programs or secular groups couldn't possibly take over for religious groups. It's really strange.

[TheMastersNemesis]

8. I Spent 16 1/2 Years In Catholic Schools And All The Pastors Ever Did

was beg for money. In our diocese they did not do anything with charities or helping the less well off. I was all about building their little empires. The Church does not do as much as it claims. And when it comes to the hospital that are owned by Catholic entities you have to submit to their version of reality. They only provide services allowed by their dogma.

[cbayer]

9. Really? What diocese was that?

Associated Catholic Charities is one of the biggest charitable organizations in this country. They provide food, shelter, treatment, medical services, etc., for some of the most marginalized people in our communities.

I also have issues with the hospitals, but that's a different part of the system.

And I have huge problems with the pedophilia and subsequent cover up by the hierarchy and the continued positions on GLBT civil right and treatment of women.

But eliminating the diocese is throwing the baby out with the bathwater and I can't support that.

[TheMastersNemesis]

10. It Was In Springfield, Illinois.

They were busy building the Catholic School System. Almost all the money was spent on building bigger churches just like the fundies. My old grade school is down to about only two rooms now out of eight grades.

The church might do charity work however they stand with the same kind of economic philosophy that created a low wage economy. They talk about poverty but won't go after business that is corrupt and immoral now. If they did in a very active way their tax exempt status would go bye bye in a heart beat.

They have covered up pedophilia in their ranks for decade both here and in Europe. And they still have not addressed the issue. They cannot become modern because their core dogma comes out of the 1st century that cannot change because they view the dogma as God's word.

[cbayer]

11. I am no fan of the catholic church in general,

but I have lived in communities where they provided the only services for the most marginalized populations.

While I would love to see the government or secular organizations pick some of that up, the opposite has happened in many areas.

Until there are other resources in place, I will support the arms of the catholic church that do good.

BTW, the tax exempt status has to do with maintaining a non-profit status. If they do not meet those criteria, then I agree that their tax status should change.

[trotsky]

12. In 2011 Catholic Charities received 62% of its funding from our tax dollars.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/09/12/oreillys-accidental-support-for-planned-parenth/189845

Are you suggesting that the work Catholic Charities does is so tied to the organization, and so impossible for anyone else to do, that they are essentially "too big to fail" and must be supported regardless of the harm caused?

If not, where would you set the bar to determine when the harm outweighs the good?

Again, I don't expect answers, but I tried to ask.

[rug]

18. What was the extra 1/2 year for?

[TheMastersNemesis]

20. Extra Semester At A Catholic College To Complete BFA Degree.

[niyad]

5. and we believe this lying sob, right:

In a letter read to parishioners over the weekend, Gallup Bishop James S. Wall denied that the diocese was filing for Chapter 11 "to avoid responsibility for what happened or to hide anything."


wasn't there something a couple of weeks ago about how the rcc has been allowed to move and protect assets so they DON'T have to pay up?

[Goblinmonger]

7. Stay classy, RCC

Perhaps the fucking Vatican should just sell one of the thousands of paintings it holds and they could use that money to pay off the victims this horrible crime that the church only worked to cover up and pass off the criminals to do it again in other places.

Bunch of assholes.

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. In the whole US, how much Catholic real estate has been sold to raise money?

They have a lot of buildings in the centres of towns and cities - I'd think they're worth a fair amount of money. How much have they raised so far? 9 dioceses or archdioceses is quite a lot. Selling off overvalued real estate is something any business does, let alone one in legal difficulties.

[cbayer]

14. I don't know, but Gallup NM is a pretty poor area.

I wonder if it is one of the places they hid perpetrators.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. In which case, the rich dioceses, such as Orange County, could step in

to help out some fellow Catholics. They had $57.5 million to buy a new cathedral, so we know they've got excess cash.

[cbayer]

16. I don't really know anything about how the hierarchy works.

But I think you are right, the richer dioceses certainly could help the poorer ones.

[Goblinmonger]

17. Seems to me the hierarchy works however it best suits The Vatican

When it is something The Vatican wants to make sure happens, they are the king of the world (which is true theologically, too). When it is about protecting assets and not making good on court rulings, it is each and every diocese on their own.

[rug]

21. Actually, they couldn't. They are separate legal entities.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. I thought the church justified its existence by being a charity

You know, an entity that will distribute money to those in need. If one charity in NM is in financial trouble, are you really saying another charity in California is legally forbidden from giving some money to it to keep that charity going?

[rug]

25. Charity is the fruit, not the justification, of a church.

Indemnification is a legal concept that has nothing to do with either charity or the point at hand.

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. Indemnification? I'm just saying they should give them some money

Not enter into any legal obligation.

If charity is not the justification of a church, then I think they should be treated like any other business. Here's hoping they have to sell all the churches, and the money goes to their victims.

[rug]

28. It's not. Do you really believe charity is the main "justification" for a church?

Perhaps you're confusing religion with the United Way.

[cbayer]

29. Were your hope to come true, that would put boatloads of people on the street,

and mentally ill out of residential centers and people without access to food kitchens and children (already losing head start) out of preschools and lost/abandoned/abused women and children out of shelters.

Is that what you really hope for?

[muriel_volestrangler]

30. No, they can stay running the centres, kitchens, schools and shelters

and sell the churches. Even if the churches are dual-use, it'd almost certainly be more efficient and cheaper to use a simpler building for the charity work - a warehouse, retail space etc. without the space taken up by pews, altars etc.

rug's the one saying charity is just a side effect, and other Catholics shouldn't help out this diocese. So they've got to find money from somewhere, and these churches are the obvious assets to sell off.

[cbayer]

32. Not all catholic churches are cathedrals on pricey pieces of land.

Many are extremely simple, in very poor areas and are multi-use.

I think your hope is really over the top and does not take into consideration all the people it would victimize.

Certainly they do have things they can sell, and lots has already been sold.

But when you suggest that retribution should include harming innocents, many who are already on the margins, it just sounds mean spirited.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. If the other rich Catholic areas are refusing to help out

(and that seems to be what rug thinks will happen), then they just have to sell some of their own assets. Again, I am not suggesting 'harming innocents'; I am suggesting selling places of worship.

I have been trying to see how many churches have been sold so far; they've talked about it, but I haven't been able to find any reports of a sale of a church actually happening. Perhaps other dioceses do chip in when people point out it's the next step for a bankrupt diocese.

[rug]

34. No, that is not at all what I'm suggesting.

The lawsuits and bankruptcies are matters of law and civil liability. (You can start a thread on morality and sin if you'd like but don't conflate the two.)

Liability and torts are not a matter of "helping out".

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. Liability can easily be a matter of 'helping out'

For instance, someone without health insurance becomes liable for a huge treatment bill, that would force them into bankruptcy. A charity (or individuals) can help them out by helping to pay for it. I don't see that, just because the Gallup diocese was found to be at fault in its behaviour, that would stop others from giving it money.

[rug]

36. Liability is being held accountable in law for a civil or criminal wrong.

Paying someone's medical bills is charity, not liability.

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. The person with the bills is liable; the Gallup diocese is liable

They can both be helped out with charity, to prevent bankruptcy. Maybe the other dioceses would prefer to see Gallup sell its churches, rather than use their own bank accounts.

[No Vested Interest]

22. And California could step in and help Mississippi with its punk education system. nt

[rug]

19. This thread is flypaper.

[Goblinmonger]

24. The irony is rich in this one. n/t

[rug]

26. Need help getting unstuck?

[dimbear]

38. I think I see how to phrase it today. Just suppose nine (!!!!) McDonald's had been closed for the

same reason.

Would you still eat at McDonald's?