Why “Atheist Churches” Are a Disaster For Atheism

[rug]

Michael Luciano
5 hours ago

As a self-respecting godless heathen, I had been doing my best to ignore the fledgling Sunday Assembly (SA) – an “atheist church” started by British comedians Sanderson Jones and Pippa Evans. For a time I was convinced the whole thing was a slightly less facetious iteration of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But reality has rendered my continued disinterest in this ridiculous enterprise untenable, as it actually seems to be gaining traction among some nonbelievers.

According to Salon, “[T]he London-based ‘Atheist Church’ that has, since its January launch, been stealing headlines the world over – announced a new ‘global missionary tour.’ In October and November, affiliated Sunday Assemblies will open in 22 cities: in England, Ireland, Scotland, Canada, the United States and Australia.” Additionally, the SA will commence a crowdfunding campaign in October to raise about $800,000 that will be followed by another round of “church” openings.

While this plan may come to fruition, it is based on nonsense. Despite the best efforts of obfuscators to assert the contrary, atheism is not a religion – not in any meaningful sense, anyway.

And at a time when atheists are trying to fight this mischaracterization – including in the courts – it is incredibly counterproductive for Jones and Evans to feed the misconceptions with their charade because the fact is, an “atheist church” makes as much sense as a Baptist synagogue.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/64861/why-atheist-churches-are-a-disaster-for-atheism

[cbayer]

1. If these "churches" meet the needs of some individuals or families, I don't see the harm.

I can understand that the whole concept is offensive to some people and that a new nomenclature should probably be developed that stays away from that used by religious organizations, but what's the big deal if there are some people that want to do that.

Unless, of course, they are being scammed.

[Agnosticsherbet]

2. Rug, the equivalent of a Baptist Synagogue is "Jews for Jesus."

It is designed to proselytize among Jews by appropriating sacred places and symbols. (There is also a Muslims for Jesus or Mohammedans for Jesus.) There is nothing new in that since Christians, and other religions have done this countless times in history. Aztec Idols were built into the walls of cathedrals in Mexico behind alters to appropriate the Gods power and followers. Most of the Celtic Gods became Saints. The Black Stone in Saudi Arabia was worshiped as a god by the pre-islamic religions. Ancient Christian Churches were turned into Mosques.

I see this as just the same thing. Appropriate religious symbols and places in order to proselytize for atheism.

[rug]

6. It's not my phrase but I see your point.

[Bjorn Against]

3. It is not about religion, it is about community

One of the big reasons the right-wing is so well organized is that they go to church and the communities in those churches work together to effect change outside of the church.

Those of us who are not religious need to do a better job of countering the influence of the well organized religious groups. This is why I think atheist churches are a good idea, churches are not about religion they are about building community, religion is just the selling point they use to organize the community.

[cbayer]

8. I think you hit the nail on the head.

I think people are seeking out the things they valued about being part of a religious group that they have not been able to replicate outside it.

Obviously there is the desire on the part of some to do this.

And much, much community organizing has been done in churches both on the left and right.

I just think we need new words for these kinds of groups that are not religiously based.

[Fumesucker]

4. Part of the bliss of being an atheist is not having to associate with people like that

Spend hours dressing up and driving miles in a car I don't have to sit somewhere with a bunch of people I don't know to talk about what we don't believe?

~blink~

[longship]

5. I am EXTREMELY uncomfortable with any characterization of atheism as a religion.

And although I am all for atheists having a common community and some structure to do things difficult to accomplish without such a cultural structure, I hate the concept of an atheist church. I despise it!

Any portrayal of atheism as just another religious belief is not only wrong, but very, very wrong. I have to strongly oppose anything remotely supporting anything like this.

Atheist do not have churches! And no! This is not a rhetorical argument. It's a matter of definition, and of how theists would attempt to leverage this to claim the atheism is a religion.

I have an idea!! Let's form an atheist church and shoot all atheists in the foot!!!!

This sucks.

[cbayer]

7. Perhaps it's just an matter of nomenclature.

There are many positive things about being a member of a religious community.

I suspect these are the things that these people are looking for, but I'm at a loss as to why they are using terms associated with religious organizations.

OTOH, I can't think of what else one might call it. There has got to be something.

[longship]

9. Well, then there's Michael Newdow.

Walking into federal court and making an argument that atheism is a religion. Yup! That Newdow, the one perpetually challenging the "under God" clause in the pledge.

That's all atheists need. A federal court finding of fact that atheism is a religion. What is Newdow thinking? Not much, apparently.

When nomenclature has the power of law behind it, That's gone too far. That's why I draw the line far short of that point.

As I've posted before here, I am a militant atheist and proud of it. Although I have a lot of tolerance for people's religious beliefs and their right to express them, my shorts can get in a bunch fairly quickly for utter foolishness that would whittle down what few precious rights out spoken non-believers retain in this world.

I appreciate your interest in my flame outs.

[LostOne4Ever]

11. +infinity (nt)

[AtheistCrusader]

15. Not collecting stamps as a form of stamp collecting.

It's nonsense. This 'church' thing can be ignored, or laughed at all you want. It is utterly meaningless. Atheism is not a religion.

[longship]

16. Tell that to Michael Newdow.

Who argued in a federal court that atheism is a religion. That's really something we need a federal court to accept as a finding of fact.

I very much like Newdow, but I'm glad that argument did not have traction.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. People make mistakes.

[LostOne4Ever]

10. Normally, I am all for being open-minded and inclusive

But I am making an exception for this.

The idea of an Atheist "Church" is ridiculous. I completely agree with the article. Atheism is NOT A RELIGION and it does not need to co-opt the trappings of one. If a non-believer wants what a church offers there are book clubs and other groups that offer all of that. Hell, if you really want a church there is UU.

But we DO NOT NEED AN ATHEIST CHURCH!

This annoys me beyond words.

One of my criticisms about religions is how they spend money on churches and Idols rather than feeding the poor, and this is us turning around and DOING THE SAME EXACT THING!!!

[center] [/center]

Whatever happened to atheists building hospitals instead of churches! First monument benches and now this. Arrrrggggghhhhhh!

[dimbear]

12. The destruction by fire of the Zeppelin Hindenburg was a disaster. Atheist churches are more of a

self contradiction.

[MellowDem]

13. It's no big deal...

sure, some people with an agenda will use it as an example to pretend atheism is a religion, but those people would have done so anyways. They were doing it long before this came along. People will demonize and mischaracterize what they fear when they're insecure in their own beliefs.

From everything I've read about it, it's just about getting people together (most of whom seem nostalgic from their indoctrination days) and engaging in tradition and familiar comforts (singing, a secular sermon on some subject or other), church rituals without a supernatural diety. Basically, just another secular organization in other words, but patterned on the same sort of tradition and culture that a lot of people are brought up in.

Probably makes the transition from to open unbeliever a little easier for some people. I know quite a few "believers" that personally believe nothing of what their religion says, some maybe not even in god, and the reason most stick around is the community aspect, since they've been brought up in it their whole lives.

I would have no use for it, at least the tradition and ritual, as I'm far enough removed from religion long enough it's no big deal anymore, but I could see at first people need a transitional stage, and some people just love ritual. I do like philisophical discussions though, and it's a reason I attend atheist meetups in my area, always lots of interesting topics and discussions, and I can see how this would be another setting for it.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. lol

A disaster?

Who gives a shit. The only people who care about an 'atheist church' are theocrats. Theocrats can masquerade as an atheist all they want, but they are still holding the same empty sack every other religion holds.

That or people are reading WAY too much into FSM-style satire.

[Laochtine]

18. As long

as atheists don't co-op bullshit and lies it'll be cool