Gordon Keith: What’s to hate about Dallas’ Atheist Church?

[rug]

Gordon Keith
[e-mail]
Published: 26 September 2013 09:15 PM
Updated: 27 September 2013 06:25 AM

If all goes according to plan, D-FW will welcome another church on Nov. 17. In a land of 10,000 congregations, the news shouldn’t be more than a sparrow’s burp. But this one will do the impossible: unite fundamentalist Christians and hard-core atheists.

- snip -

This new church coming to Dallas doesn’t aim to save souls for the Lord. In fact, it’s called the Atheist Church — a name that makes media outlets shudder in joy and fundamentalists and hard- core atheists shudder in unison. They are, after all, two sides joined by hatred of middle ground.

Dallas has hosted Unitarian, Buddhist and Freethought churches for years. But the phrase Atheist Church has a wildfire quality that singes emotions quickly and makes compelling copy. The name is provocative, but the idea is not.

Alain de Botton is at the forefront of this neo-atheism movement. De Botton is a writer and self-described “gentle atheist” who, unlike the Dawkins-Hitchens-Harris brand, has nice things to say about churches and religion. He sees the human itches that they can scratch. His book Religion for Atheists argues that atheists should take a more balanced and accurate view of religion.

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/columnists/gordon-keith/20130926-gordon-keith-whats-to-hate-about-dallas-atheist-church.ece

If it opens in November, it will join the North Texas Church of Freethought, celebrating its twentieth anniversary next year.

http://www.churchoffreethought.org/

[Skinner]

1. I do find the choice of name to be odd.

Here's how Google defines the word "Church"

a building used for public Christian worship.

a particular Christian organization, typically one with its own clergy, buildings, and distinctive doctrines.

the hierarchy of clergy of a Christian organization, esp. the Roman Catholic Church or the Church of England.

institutionalized religion as a political or social force.

https://www.google.com/search?q=church+definition

Every one of those definitions makes reference to either Christianity or religion.

Having grown up as an active member of a Christian church, I understand the desire to be part of a community. And as someone who is no longer religious, I do sometimes wish I was part of a community like that. But the word "church" does not feel right to me. First, it doesn't seem to actually fit the accepted definition for "church." And second, I think it may be confusing for some people, and cause them to infer that non-belief is a religion.

[rug]

2. This has been going back and forth for some time now.

Alain de Botton has gone as far as Religion for Atheists: A Non-Believer's Guide to the Uses of Religion (2012). http://www.alaindebotton.com/religion.asp

And then there is the recent outreach of the Sunday Assembly. http://sundayassembly.com/

I think it's a human response for like-minded people to gather and eventually form a routine, if not ritual.

The origin of the word ecclessial is the Greek ekklesia, or "assembly".

Congregation comes from the Latin congregare, to collect together.

"Church", on the other hand, does come ultimately from the Greek kuriakon, the "Lord's house".

I don't think atheism is a religion either. But what these current trends suggest to me is that it's not simply nonbelief either.

[cbayer]

3. I agree and think we need a completely different nomenclature, but I have yet to

see anyone come up with alternative language, including those that are pushing this movement.

Any ideas?

[LostOne4Ever]

4. Club

Whatever is used needs to imply something other than any form of reverence or worship.

Church, synagogue, mosque, tabernacle, temple, etc. all need to be avoided.

So what do you call a group of people who meet occasionally to discuss a common SECULAR interest? The words that come to my mind are club, society, and group.

[cbayer]

5. I think club is good, but would wonder what modifiers one might use to

distinguish it.

Atheist Club? Club of the non-religious? Sunday Social Club?

Any ideas?

One group is using Sunday Assembly to designate their meetings.

[LostOne4Ever]

7. The Humanist Club

The Secular Ethics society

There are alot of them. Of course, none of them will be solely atheist. There is not much you can do or say about NOT believing in something.

Group leader, "I dont think there is a god."
Member 1, "Me either."
Member 2, "Nor me."
Member 3, "In total agreement"
Awkward silence
Group leader, "Sooooooo I will see you all next week and we can go over this some more?"
Rest of the Group, "Sounds good!"

Its more likely gonna be like an ethical society or the UU church.

The Sunday Assembly would work. But I dislike how they refer to themselves as a congregation.

[cbayer]

8. It's got to be as inclusive as possible, I would think.

People label themselves or identify with so many different groups while rejecting others.

I would think the emphasis would need to be on community, as that is what it seems so many are seeking.

Assembly seems good, but I agree that using words traditionally associated with religion (like congregation) become a problem.

[LostOne4Ever]

6. Atheist "Church?"

Seems like the only people who are calling this an Atheist "Church" are the media and believers. They call themselves the Sunday Assembly, though they do have a really annoying tendency to call themselves an congregation (definition does not fit).

Calling this an atheist "church" rubs me the wrong way. The term atheist "chuch" makes it sounds like we are basing our ideas on Christian culture and norms. Propping up a secular ethic based upon a Christian framework, rather than building our own framework from scratch.

Sounds like this "church" is going to be just another type of humanist ethical society. What is the big deal? How is this different from other secular ethical societies or the UU church?

I feel calling it an atheist "church" is just going to give more ammo to naive fools and the right wing to try and claim atheism is a religion and get it officially declared as such by the government.

The article itself, is very inflammatory to anyone who does not agree. Comparing "Hard Core" Atheists to fundamentalist is just asking for a fight. "Hatred of the Middle Ground?" There is no hatred of the middle ground and the fundamentalist would be GIDDY about an Atheist "Church" as they would be able to say:

"See atheism is a religion! They even have their own churches! Anything that does not acknowledge god is pro-atheist and violates the first amendment!"

And if we are not careful some dumb judge might agree with them.

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/columnists/gordon-keith/20130926-gordon-keith-whats-to-hate-about-dallas-atheist-church.ece[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]De Botton says that atheism should steal a few of religion’s more practical and effective ways of improving life. Specifically, community, ritual and commitment to others.

Community and commitment to others are not exclusive or owned by religion. Rituals are not necessarily a practical or effective way of improving life and are more often than not, something to be opposed.

[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]If the aim of this Atheist Church is to gather, irritate and trade in cathartic religious snark, I’m out. But if the idea is promoting charity and clarity while tightening the cords of community and exploring wonder, then I like what they’re peddling. And I don’t mind them borrowing holidays, jargon and form from Christianity. The same way I don’t mind that Christianity borrowed from paganism. Whatever gently gets people to the trough of compassion, love and wholeness.

Offensive stereotypes of a group is such a great way to get us to listen to an article.

We don't need a church to promote charity or to tighten the cords of community or to explore wonder. We don't need to borrow anything as those things are not exclusively Christian or Pagan. People can and do get to compassion, love, and wholeness without religion and sometimes religion actively works against those very things.

But again, I don't see where they are calling themselves a church.

[cbayer]

9. Actually, this particular group does call themselves "The Church of Freethought"

http://www.churchoffreethought.org

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

13. Thank you for this post, particularly this:

We don't need a church to promote charity or to tighten the cords of community or to explore wonder. We don't need to borrow anything as those things are not exclusively Christian or Pagan. People can and do get to compassion, love, and wholeness without religion and sometimes religion actively works against those very things.

Religion for Atheists? Oxymoronic.

[dimbear]

10. If you absolutely need a noun for this group, go for congregation.

Originally just meant a flock of animals. Now, any gathering.

[rug]

11. I dunno. Is Congregation of Atheists really any better?

[dimbear]

12. Not much better.

Church grates, but then that's how you get fresh pepper.