Teacher suspended after requiring fourth-grader to participate in Pledge of Allegiance

[pokerfan]

As the students recited, teacher Anne Daigle-McDonald took the boy's wrist and placed his hand over his heart. He protested, pulling his arm down and reminding her he was a Jehovah's Witness.

"You are an American, and you are supposed to salute the flag," Daigle-McDonald said, according to a statement the boy gave to a school administrator.

The next day, Daigle-McDonald again placed the boy's hand over his heart. She then addressed the class.

"In my classroom, everyone will do the pledge; no religion says that you can't do the pledge," several students told a school administrator, according to a report. "If you can't put your hand on your heart, then you need to move out of the country."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/hernando-teacher-suspended-after-requiring-fourth-grader-to-participate-in/2150894

[rug]

1. She should be fired.

[itsrobert]

2. Should, but she probably get a speaking tour

and donations to assist with legal fees.

[hrmjustin]

3. Fire her!

[edhopper]

4. I see a new

Faux New darling in the future.

[LostOne4Ever]

5. Sorry, THIS IS MY HOME COUNTRY

If the teacher doesn't like that she is free to leave.

[p class=post-sig style=margin-top:0px;text-align:center;]

[div style='color: #B20000;font-size: 2.000em'] [center] Not all those who wander are LOST!!! [/center]

[struggle4progress]

6. She should have known better: the law has been settled for decades

[trotsky]

7. Laws against murder have been settled for far longer than that.

Yet people continue to kill others. Go figure - some people willfully break the law. Who knew??

[struggle4progress]

8. You think the state should lock her away for life? Or maybe even stick a needle in her arm?

[trotsky]

9. Focus, s4p.

Address the point. People disregard laws all the time, do they not?

[rexcat]

11. "Focus"...

[struggle4progress]

15. (1) Here's the relevant Florida statute:

Title XLVIII K-20 EDUCATION CODE
Chapter 1003 PUBLIC K-12 EDUCATION
1003.44 Patriotic programs; rules.—
(1) Each district school board may adopt rules to require .. programs of a patriotic nature ... The pledge of allegiance to the flag .. shall be rendered by students standing with the right hand over the heart. The pledge of allegiance to the flag shall be recited at the beginning of the day in each public elementary, middle, and high school in the state. Each student shall be informed by posting a notice in a conspicuous place that the student has the right not to participate in reciting the pledge. Upon written request by his or her parent, the student must be excused from reciting the pledge ...

[trotsky]

19. Red Herring 1. n/t

[struggle4progress]

16. (2) Overturning in part a decision of the District Court for Southern Florida on appeal,

the Eleventh Circuit (in Frazier v Winn on 23 July 2008) found it constitutional to require written parental permission as a condition for excusing students from reciting the pledge, but agreed that it would be unconstitutional to require a student so excused to stand during the pledge, and finding this provision separable from the remainder of the statute

This matter currently appears to be settled in the Eleventh Circuit, as on 5 October 2009 the Supreme Court denied certiori for the case (restyled Frazier v Smith due to change in Florida's Commissioner of Education)

Minor Frazier had argued (with mother as best friend) that the decision whether or not to recite the pledge was his own decision to make and could not be conditioned by requirement to obtain written parental permission, Florida replying that the question turned on the rights of parents to control their minor children rather than on the rights of the minors

[trotsky]

20. Red Herring 2. n/t

[struggle4progress]

17. (3) As some issues involving 1003.44(1) have been extensively litigated,

it is perhaps unrealistic to assume that Daigle-McDonald was conversant with existing law. Her five day suspension, and the requirement for diversity training, are administrative actions which do not seem to reflect your view that her acts were grounded in a deliberate disregard for law but rather a local judgement that her acts were so sufficiently insensitive as to require some disciplinary response

[trotsky]

21. Red Herring 3. You strike out - again.

Maybe next time you'll attempt to have a substantive discussion.

[struggle4progress]

28. I had thought perhaps you were interested in the law associated with this matter, in particular

as you seem to have suggested in your #7 that the teacher had deliberately disregarded the law, as people sometimes disregard statutes against murder

Here the relevant issue seems to me not statutory but rather the anti-establishment clause as understood in light of the entirely on-pointBoard of Education v. Barnette

In my view, the Barnette decision is so sufficiently established (being over 60 years in effect now) that everyone -- and especially including persons involved in the state-sponsored education of minors -- ought to be aware of it, but that still does not imply that everyone, who ought to be aware of it, is actually aware of it

And you provide no evidence whatsoever to support any claim that the teacher in question was aware of the Barnette decision and its significance, but deliberately ignored it nevertheless

Should you instead regard the teacher's acts as deliberate violations of statute, then it might be useful to read the governing statute, provided in #15, which implies school personnel may compel a minor student to recite the pledge unless provided with written instructions otherwise from the parent

This aspect of the statutory law has been upheld after litigation as you may see by consulting links in #16: the Eleventh Circuit held in Frazier v Winn that school personnel may compel a minor student to recite the pledge unless provided with written instructions otherwise from the parent, and SCOTUS later declined review that opinion

You also provide no evidence whatsoever to support any claim that the teacher in question deliberately violated the statute

But the situation here is somewhat more circumscribed: although this outcome to Frazier v Winn seems unfortunate to me, it does lead to the view that a claim of anyone's deliberate violation of the statute pivots on provision of such written instructions and the alleged malfeasor's awareness of said instructions

[trotsky]

32. I know what the law is. You know what the law is.

Whether the teacher did or not is actually irrelevant, although you implied in #6 that she should have.

I made the point that people often willfully disregard the law, and asked if you agreed. Instead of addressing that point (with just a simple yes or no answer), you've dishonestly attempted to shift the discussion to the specific claim that you think I made, namely that the teacher DID know the law and willfully broke it. Along with your typical Google carpet bombing of replies to make it look as if you're bringing something to the discussion.

All to avoid dealing with the 700 pound gorilla in the room, natch.

[rexcat]

10. Not surprising...

you would try to twist trotsky's words. Very disappointing but not entirely unexpected from you.

I see you more as a worshiper of Christ rather than a follower considering the comments you have made in this forum. You could take some lessons from hrmjustin.

[cleanhippie]

12. A worshipper, not a follower of Jesus.

An interesting distinction that I think you nailed.

[struggle4progress]

31. A sense of proportion in such discussions is a good thing in my opinion: not every human failing

seems to me analogous to deliberate murder

I suppose YMMV

[Act_of_Reparation]

33. Reading comprehension is measurably better

No comparison between the teacher's actions and murder were made. That, after Trotsky has repeatedly clarified the point he/she was trying to make, you are still yammering on about it gives me pause to wonder whether A) you can follow a simple train of thought, or B) you are possessed of a single shred of honesty.

If it is the former, I'll try to simplify this as best I can:

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean people won't do it, even if they are aware that it is illegal.

That's it. That's all he/she said. No equivocation here, just a simple statement of fact.

[trotsky]

34. Thanks for that, A_o_R. n/t

[rexcat]

35. Nice try...

but failure on your part. I stand by what I said!

[struggle4progress]

13. Teacher Anne Daigle-McDonald back in class ...

12:14 PM, Nov 7, 2013
Spring Hill, Florida (AP) - A Florida fourth-grade teacher has returned to the classroom after a suspension for requiring a Jehovah's Witness to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance on 9/11. A Hernando County School District report shows that Anne Daigle-McDonald was temporarily reassigned, suspended without pay and ordered to complete diversity training. District spokesman Roy Gordon said Thursday that McDonald has returned to teaching ...
http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/343543/250/Teacher-back-in-class-after-suspension-over-pledge


Anne Daigle-McDonald was suspended for five days ...

[pokerfan]

14. Quotes from the teacher

It's hard to tell if she learned anything from her suspension...

"But that’s not what I said," Daigle-McDonald told the Tampa Bay Times. "It was directed at citizenship. I was talking about pledging allegiance to our country, and if you don’t want to pledge to our country, you should go to your home country.”

“I just wanted all of the students to respect the day,” said Daigle-McDonald. “It wasn’t a holiday, so I didn’t see why the whole class couldn’t say the pledge.”

[struggle4progress]

18. Perhaps not the brightest-shining candle in the chandelier

[trotsky]

22. But clearly has very strong personal beliefs.

What's wrong with that?

[frogmarch]

23. This is rather beside the point, but

why should anyone be expected to say the Pledge more than once in a lifetime? Does recitation of the Pledge have a short shelf life? Do the flags hearing people's pledges have some form of amnesia?

[rug]

24. It gives the authorities a daily opportunity to scan the audience to see who's silent.

[frogmarch]

25. Bingo!

In Germany, the required recitation of the Reichswehreid served a similar purpose.

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

26. Had quite a few Jehovah's Witness students over the years and

while I don't agree with their beliefs, every one of them were model students on the religious issues. There were two issues in our curriculum - the daily pledge required by the state and study of blood types and blood transfusion in a unit on the human circulatory system.

This was all 25+ years ago, but I remember it as if it were yesterday... One boy was hyperactive (very). His mom came in the week before school for a short conference.

MOM: You know we don't believe in pledging to anyone other than God.

ME: Yes (expecting a problem).

MOM: Well, if you do the pledge in your room (some ignored the state mandate), he will stand silently during the pledge and respect the right of those who say it. If he does not, call me.

MOM continued: And when you get to that heart unit, please tell them that there are alternatives like plasma to blood transfusion.

In the following years I had her second child and three of her friends' children. Never a problem.

I cannot believe any teacher who spent time in teacher education courses could be as ignorant as the teacher referenced in the original post. Ignorant and insensitive. Especially when the child was aware enough to simply mention his/her religious belief.

What sets me off the most is the "...move out of the country" quote. The Jehovah children in my classes were all at least second or third generation Americans. Years later I even had the honor of teaching the daughter of one of those earlier children.

[cbayer]

29. You have articulated this so well.

I wish you could write something for educators.

This is really important and really very simple.

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

30. Thank you so much for the reply.

There is not much more I could write. Stories like mine are all over educational literature. But that assumes that the teacher ed students read. I learned through experience, before "diversity education" became a part of the undergraduate experience. I don't know (or care) if the referenced teacher was young or old, male or female. But if s/he graduated close to my era s/he should have known from experience. If s/he graduated within the last ten years it should have been a mandatory part of the undergraduate experience. All s/he had to do was stay awake in class.

Teaching is an interesting sport. If the adults respect the kids, the kids will respond with respect. When the adults show disrespect, the kids (and their parents) will respond in kind. In my mind you are absolutely correct. It really is very simple.

[ejpoeta]

27. I always feel weird at school stuff and girl scouts...

I don't do the pledge, and just stand there looking nervous. sometimes I will put my hand up sort of on my heart and not say anything.