What does everyone think unusual quotes in The Book of Revelations really describe?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

Last edited Mon May 26, 2014, 11:34 AM - Edit history (1)

King James Version: Revelation Chapter 17
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdi[01010101010101110101]tion.

[stopbush]

1. Most likely the rants of somebody on drugs or suffering from lead poisoning.

Or, just an insane person writing down their personal demons.

[rug]

2. Fee free to post your rants about lead poisoning, insanity, and demons elsewhere.

You may not realize you're in the Catholic and Orthodox Group, a safe haven, where those speculations really add nothing.

[stopbush]

4. Speculations? In a discussion of Revelations? Who woulda thunk it?

BTW - are you enjoying your time as DU's resident religious scold?

[rug]

6. About as much as you'll enjoy your block.

Your move.

[stopbush]

8. Not my move at all.

Looks like a jury made their decision.

[rug]

10. It is your move to follow the SoP.

The jury deals with community standards. 4-3 makes this your lucky day.

[hrmjustin]

17. This is a safe haven. your breaking the rules and rug is the host here.

I have made the mistake as well of going into a safe haven I shouldn't have.

[stopbush]

26. Thanks for the info. I will make it a point to avoid this group.

Avoiding Rug in the process will be a bonus.

[rug]

27. Go in peace.

[davidpdx]

7. Jury Decision

Speculations? In a discussion of Revelations? Who woulda thunk it?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1221&pid=4664

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Apparently, this poster thinks a safe haven is a place to drop turds and make personal attacks. Regardless of what the hosts of this Group do, the community standards of DU are about a modicum of respect for DUers, particularly in a safe haven group set up for that purpose.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Apr 27, 2014, 10:12 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Maybe for GD but obviously not here.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't see anything that i remotely anti-Catholic or Orthodox. The person who alerted is wasting their time on petty stuff.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: both sides need to grow up
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[rug]

9. Which one were you?

[davidpdx]

22. I missed that it was a safe haven group

Though I did look through the thread. Had I caught that it was a safe haven group I would have voted the other way.

[rug]

24. Thanks for the response.

Safe havens are important for the health of DU.

[hrmjustin]

25. Agreed.

[goldent]

11. For future reference, this kind of post isn't welcome here

It belongs in the Religion group, where you are free to mock everything religious.

[oldhippie]

12. And another jury decision ...

3-4 to leave it.

On Sun Apr 27, 2014, 09:35 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Most likely the rants of somebody on drugs or suffering from lead poisoning.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1221&pid=4661

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

He has come into a religious safe haven group to type that its Scripture is the result of drugs, lead poisoning, insanity or personal demons. This place is not GD or the Religion Group which are not safe havens. "This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate."

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Apr 27, 2014, 09:49 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Safe haven means just that.

Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: There should be no safe havens in DU for the religious insane. If the group's members question their faith when they see someone providing an alternate view, maybe they are not true believers after all proving their religion a sham.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Apparently the poster was warned in, or by, Post #7, but decided to take his chances, in which case I feel it's only just to follow the safe-haven logic, since he was apprised of it, and vote to lock.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The OP asked a question. Got an answer. I don't see anything to hide.

Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Lead poisoning was a genuine health problem during the Roman empire. Fortunately, it only affected the 1%ers affluent enough to have plumbing.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: glad the alert pointed out where this was posted. I agree, should not be in this group!
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

And juror #3 doesn't understand the difference between a lock and a hide. If this is supposed to be a safe haven, it's up to the hosts to lock the thread or block the poster, not a jury.

[rug]

13. Which one were you?

[oldhippie]

14. I was .....

.... the enlightened one.

Why do you ask?

[rug]

15. If you were #2 you'll be getting a message.

That is nearl the most bigoted rationale I've seen from a DU juror.

BTW, you were wrong in your original reply. Community standards apply as much in safe haven groups as they do anywhere else on DU, regardless of what the hosts do or do not do.

[oldhippie]

16. And if I were juror #2, from whom ....

.... would I be receiving a message? And about what? Who would be able to identify juror #2? And juries are not safe havens.

Yes, community standards apply everywhere on DU. But locking threads and blocking posters is done by hosts, not juries, which can only hide a post, not block a poster from a group, or lock a thread (unless the post is an OP.)

But never mind, it doesn't really matter. I wouldn't have even known this group existed if I hadn't been called to jury service. I wasn't juror #2, and I'll likely never darken your door again.

[hrmjustin]

18. Hosts do block people from the room.

I may have read your post wrong but just wanted to throw that out there. And rug is the host.

[oldhippie]

19. Correct, and that's what I said

Juries cannot block a person from a group, or lock a thread (unless the hidden post is an OP.) Hosts can do that. My comment that started this sub thread was that a juror didn't know the difference between a lock and a hide.

So why doesn't the host block the offending poster? (Not that I care.)

[hrmjustin]

20. Sorry I read your post wrong.

I think thr host wants to give the poster a chance to self delete. I have blocked members from a room and it is not a good feeling.

[rug]

21. You're welcome to post whenever you like as long as you follow the SoP.

[rug]

3. There's an Introduction to that odd book in The New American Bible, Revised Edition.

http://www.usccb.org/bible/scripture.cfm?bk=Revelation&ch=

It starts out with this paragraph:

The Apocalypse, or Revelation to John, the last book of the Bible, is one of the most difficult to understand because it abounds in unfamiliar and extravagant symbolism, which at best appears unusual to the modern reader. Symbolic language, however, is one of the chief characteristics of apocalyptic literature, of which this book is an outstanding example. Such literature enjoyed wide popularity in both Jewish and Christian circles from ca. 200 B.C. to A.D. 200.

This is the translation it uses for 17:11.

11. The beast* that existed once but exists no longer is an eighth king, but really belongs to the seven and is headed for destruction.

This is the footnote for it.

* (17:11) The beast: Nero; see note on Rev 17:8.

That footnote in turn refers to 17:8.

* (17:8) Allusion to the belief that the dead Nero would return to power (Rev 17:11); see note on Rev 13:3.

Which in turn refers to 13:3.

* (13:3) This may be a reference to the popular legend that Nero would come back to life and rule again after his death (which occurred in A.D. 68 from a self-inflicted stab wound in the throat); cf. Rev 13:14; Rev 17:8. Domitian (A.D. 81–96) embodied all the cruelty and impiety of Nero. Cf. Introduction.

And so on.

I really have no idea what it means. Scholars have spent decades of their lives studying it and placing it in context.

Frankly, I'd rather read a critical essay on Joyce's Ulysses than try to read the damn thing. I feel the same about this book.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

5. I tend to agree with you

Revelation is impenetrable, and I don't even try reading it.

[demosincebirth]

23. True, I started reading it a couple of times and gave up.

[olegramps]

31. I have thought that it was odd that it was included in the New Testament.

It was my understanding that the Christians who being persecuted would have an understanding of the symbolism. I just don't believe that it has very much meaning to modern Christians and has been a source of confusion for many.

[shrike]

28. There is a theory that Revelations is actually written for the Christians in Rome

In a sort of code that they would understand. It is meant as a comfort to them, in a time of difficulty for the community.

Take that for what you will. I've read Revelations and I can't make head nor tail of the damn thing. I defy anyone to. That's why I get annoyed with people taking it literally.

On edit: maybe I shouldn't have referred to it as "the damn thing" . . .

[Jeffersons Ghost]

30. I agree. Taking Reveations cannot be taken "literally"

[ ]

[goldent]

29. I don't know what they mean

I view is as great poetry. My favorite part:

[1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

[2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

[3] And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

[4] And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

[5] And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Reminds me a little bit of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds