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heaven05

(18,124 posts)
Mon Oct 13, 2014, 12:59 PM Oct 2014

Just because we

are "born in sin", according to the bible and the religionists, we have to suffer the depravity of this world, because two people from who knows where were plopped into some garden many millenniums ago decided not to listen to the entity that allegedly made them and put them in that garden to enjoy "paradise". In the 1980's, right after Lennon's murder I found what I thought at the time, and still do, barely, as salvation in the christian description of asking forgiveness of my sins. You know accepting jesus as my lord and savior and all the genuflecting that acceptance calls for.

I was a 'good' Christian, as good as I could be, for 19 years. Ronnie didn't bother me that much because I was in the throes of being "born from above" or "again", your choice. Oh today I DO see ronnie and all the evil he caused. But I digress. 19 years of studying my bible, going to church, for a while until being asked, by the 'preacher-leader', to sit separately from my significant other at the time. She was a different race than I and it upset some of my fellow parishioners that we sat so close. I began to question my faith and in even trying to love my fellow human beings. Really question. That preacher broke my heart. If it hadn't been for my sig-other I might have hurt him that evening, after worship, when called into his office for 'the discussion'. But, moving on. I did start researching racism, slavery and amerikan christianity. My, my, my what an eye opener. From Bob Jones University and their separate but equal campus(since changed, I guess) to the KKK and all that burning crosses shit, all the way down to my southern baptist denomination. I knew, generically, about racism but what did I learn was a lot about the religions of this country and it's complicity in perpetuating racism. From native-american genocide, the mark of cain and Ham bullshit to the modern day, american christianity has been complicit in the racism and bigotry that has plagued this country and it's peoples for generations. And Sunday is still called the most segregated hour or two in america.

Attended other churches after that but the suspicion that me and my friend were not accepted, fully, always nagged me. I was somewhat unsettled by my previous experience with christian 'love'(racism to use another term). My faith started to slowly unravel, in spite of my laments and prayers for guidance in understanding my fellow christians, not to mention the ongoing joe in the street racism. My relationship unraveled and we finally went our separate ways. The incident put doubt in her mind as well as mine since we were struggling to be 'good' christians in a basically racist religion. And yes, I do feel there was love there, because we tried and stayed together for ten more years after the 'incident' with that southern baptists denomination. No, I didn't research the religion or believe that they were that racist and who by the way, still are. I had faith I had been led to the right church-home.

Then along came GWB, 9/11/Patriot Act/Cheney/Iraq/and then that one iconic photo of all those flag draped coffins in that giant C-17 being sneaked into Dover in the middle of the night broke me completely. I saw the deception of Vietnam all over again. It slapped me back to reality about that so called 'christian GWB and his administration. Bullshit christian who created the situation, with it's incredible and vicious violence, that we must endure everyday....still 11 years later.

Well here it is almost 2015 and armed with the truth of our society as revealed for the last 6 years especially but 35 in all, I am thinking about churches again. I am 66 and getting real about my passing this plain of existence. My vet invited me to his Sikh temple, a Universalist Unitarian has invited me to her church and to be truthful I do find my self longing for 'dependable' safe human contact again if that is truly possible. I am going to visit both soon, I'm sure, just because on my calender the day Sunday always nags me. I'm fighting my thoughts of atheism because there is just too much order in the universe for there not to be an author or authors of this existence. I am an astronomer(novice) and to look into the depths of space and it's seemingly endless expanse, one must think of their position on this very small but important ball of dirt. I do like Tyson a lot. Sagan was a good one also. Space.com has beautiful photos, NASA of course,and Spacepictures.org

I guess the purpose of this rather long ramble/meander through some of my personal life is asking, once again, to people who have faith in something outside of themselves and this world, how to embrace 'faith' with everything going on and I mean everything from fukishima, huge calving of a major ecosystem, to ISIS, Ukraine, passenger planes missing and shot down, to the racist and bigoted amerikkkan RW politicians, open carry idiots who by and large are white, cause if a black american even picks up a toy gun, they're dead in this society, television pundits and racist radio commentators. Is god good? Can this entity be that, given that it's allegedly the author of all. Are there really open minded, reasoning, logical people who truly believe in a loving God? With all this, truly believe?

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rug

(82,333 posts)
3. So, from that starting point, I believe things are not supposed to be this way.
Mon Oct 13, 2014, 06:17 PM
Oct 2014

There is a lot of wisdom in different religious traditions that all say that.

I find that to be the fist step on the path of faith.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
4. yet, they are
Mon Oct 13, 2014, 06:56 PM
Oct 2014

and why do you believe things are not the way they should be and how do you believe, with or without god, they should be? Things are heading toward FUBAR and I don't mean all that 'last days' crap. That crap is one of the reasons republican fundamentalist 'christians' and probably some democrats don't care whether we're destroying this world because jesus is going to come along and make everything better for all who believe in him..........the rest better I have no faith in that happening this way. Is jesus real? Is god real? Who are human beings and where did the concept of our existence come from? These question cannot be answered. Period. Faith is to me, that we are here for a reason, otherwise what's the use. Now are we supposed to be the way we are, good, bad or otherwise as some kind of infinite spiritual test? Are we as some Buddhist say to continue on a cycle of living many lifetimes until we get it right? No on knows, yet the preacher or Imam are leading some people down the garden path of righteous murder and mayhem and swears to high heaven that god or allah is talking to them only. Religion is crazy making and corrupt. I have belief but it is locked away in my heart to be shared with my god only. Let me stop. I could go on and on.

Faith to me is that they, the religionists are not right and leading people astray from what is planted by the infinite in each and every heart and that is love for one another and all living creatures. That would save our world.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
6. loss of information
Mon Oct 13, 2014, 07:10 PM
Oct 2014

from the first transmittal of original message? Could be that. Interesting answer response.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
7. Martin Luther King was motivated by his Christian belief.
Tue Oct 14, 2014, 10:46 PM
Oct 2014

I am only saying that to point out that the Christian message you received from your Southern Baptist upbringing represents only a certain time and a certain place. It was and is a racist denomination.

My current church looks like the United Nations, with many interracial couples in it, including my own. It is a liberal Episcopalian congregation with immigrants from all over the world in it. It has had a minister, who unfortuneatly died from cancer a few years ago, who was a black lesbian open in her sexuality. Her white partner was fully accepted as a member of the congregation; that was another interracial relationship. This is what is possible.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
9. weeelll, they are a little different.
Sun Nov 16, 2014, 10:34 PM
Nov 2014

I was brought up UU, am now E.

Both are quite liberal, however.

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