American Jews, Politics and Israel

[Mosby]

(THIS IS THE JEWISH GROUP)


The political orientation of American Jews has come back into the spotlight in recent weeks with President Donald Trump's comments regarding Jews and their stances toward his presidency and the Democratic Party.

Trump has, throughout his presidency, shown public support for Israel through both his rhetoric and policy actions, including his recent high-profile assailing of Democratic members of Congress whom he characterized as anti-Semitic and anti-Israel.

Part of Trump's motivation is no doubt maintaining support among Christian evangelicals, who are very positive toward Israel and who form a key component of his political coalition. But Trump recently drew a connection between his support of Israel and the Jewish vote, saying to Jewish Americans: "In my opinion, if you vote for a Democrat, you're being very disloyal to Jewish people and you're being very disloyal to Israel. And only weak people would say anything other than that." And, a day earlier: "I think any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat, I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty."

It has traditionally been difficult to analyze the attitudes and political orientation of American Jews in surveys because they are such a small segment of the population (more on that below). But, by aggregating large numbers of interviews, Gallup and other organizations have been able to learn a good deal about American Jews that relates to the issues Trump is raising. The data show that despite Trump's commentary, Jews in the U.S. are both highly likely to identify as Democrats and vote for Democratic candidates and to express views that are highly loyal to Israel. There is little evidence of a change in these trends, or that this situation creates the kind of Jewish cognitive dissonance that Trump asserts should be the case.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/265898/american-jews-politics-israel.aspx

[elleng]

1. Personally, I'll disagree with the 'loyal to Israel' part,

but that's just me, I guess.

[Mosby]

2. I think there are different ways to interpret his phrasing

He probably just means that American Jews largely support Israeli positions re the ip conflict and give them the benefit of the doubt when there are competing versions of the truth.

[MyMission]

3. Hate the sin but love the sinner

As American Jews, we must love Israel because it is the Only Jewish State in the world.
It may not be our ,"homeland" but it is the home of our people. If Jews were forced out of the US, or France, or Australia, etc. we could go/escape to Israel. Jews loyalty to Germany didn't work out well. Israel was established due to that horror, the shoah.

Some of Israel's policies and practices are unpalatable, or unacceptable, while others are born of experience, fear, or necessity. I was just rereading the book of Joshua earlier today, which describes all the nation's and Kings we killed and the few we subjugated in order to take Israel, the land the Lord promised and gave to us. Brutal stuff. Not advocating it. But it's part of our Jewish history.

Over 40 years ago, at a Jewish youth group weekend, we had a mock debate and I had to take the pro-palestinian side. It made me think, and consider things I might not have previously.

Our Jewish traditions of studying Torah, and questioning, are the basis of our heritage.
Here on DU we rail against Trump, complain about what has become of the USA, are embarrassed and ashamed, but we are still Americans. It is the leadership that sets the tone.

In Israel, the same can be said. They all must serve in the military, be prepared to defend themselves against vast numbers who would annihilate them=us=jews. Many there have parents or grandparents who fought in wars they didn't instigate, and won territory in their victories. To the Victor goes the spoils. By waging war and losing, the Palestinians lost what they were supposed to have.

In this country, our treatment of native Americans is something we are still grappling with. I hate that we lied, relocated, killed and tried to assimilate them. But I don't hate the USA.

In Israel, the treatment of Palestinians is something they are still grappling with. I hate that they have lied, relocated, killed, and not assimilated them, but I do not and could not hate Israel.

And look at our civil war, fought over slavery and subjugation of a race, 70+ years after we gained independence. And another 100 years of non-equality. And another 50 years and counting, of struggling to be a fair, egalitarian and non-prejudiced society. We thought we were doing so well, and then...frump. I don't see Israel having a civil war over this, but hopefully they will have new leadership that can find fair and meaningful solutions, in a more timely manner that the US has had.

I pray for shalom, peace in the world, but especially here in the USA AND in Israel.

[MosheFeingold]

4. Your confusion is unfounded

"In Israel, the treatment of Palestinians is something they are still grappling with. I hate that they have lied, relocated, killed, and not assimilated them, but I do not and could not hate Israel."

There are plenty of Arabs in Israel. Indeed, it is the wealthiest, most well-educated, and assimilated group of people in Israel.

The Arabs in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria simply refused to be part of a state where Jewish people had equal rights.

And the implied comparison to North American Native Americans is off base. It seems to rely on the lie that the Jewish people in the area are colonizers. This is false. Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire than finally fell apart after WWI. The area was divided into two states (Jordan and Israel) (or three if you count Syria). The area that became Israel was already overwhelmingly Jewish at the time. In fact, the flag of the Palestinian Ottoman Territory was the Star of David.

Sure, one can make quibbles over where the line was drawn, but that was never really the major issue. It was always about intolerant Arabs who recoiled at the idea that Jews (who were very much second class citizens under the Sultan) could be their equals.

[MyMission]

5. My confusion is mine. Well-founded or not

Moshe,
I was responding to someone who did not feel loyalty to Israel. I was trying to point out (delicately) that there is a history of injustice in our society, and Jews (in US) who do not support Israel, or do not feel loyalty, should look at our own US history. I didn't mention that Israel is not going to tear down the airport, built on conquered Palestinian land, to return it to them, if and when any peace treaty is signed. I did assert that we won the territory, so it is now ours.

I know many Arabs live well in Israel, but many do not, and that is what is highlighted. Like our current crisis with immigrants in cages, there must be a better way. (Maybe, like in the book of Joshua, we should slaughter them all, but then some nation's were spared and allowed to live among us.) I defend Israel, and her right to exist. Like Indians/native Americans were called savages, and some certainly were, many Palestinians are thought of as savages, although many are just caught up in a perpetuated hateful environment. We settled on Indian Lands, some shared while some attacked, and we conquered. Some tribes were relocated, some decimated, some confined. Not an exact comparison, I know. But would those who condemn Israel agree to returning US lands to native Americans? I doubt most would. So why should Israel have to?!?

I would not condemn Israel for actions taken to defend herself, as many American Jews seem to do. But it saddens me that these actions are taken, need to be taken, and that too many American Jews judge Israel harshly. The kibbutz I lived on was bombed, well after I left. But I was in NYC on 9/11 and saw the WTC hit, and fall, yet I did not support blindly waging war or striking back.

Yes, my confusion is mine.

I'm confused about why we can't all just get along and live peacefully together. I'm confused how American Jews can judge Israel harshly, while they discount our own US history, which has many examples of oppression, or lack of compassion. I am confused by an all or nothing attitude: Israel is either absolutely right, no matter what, or absolutely wrong in what they do, from establishing settlements to reciprocating when attacked. If (I or others feel) they are wrong or misguided or even inhumane in some of their policies or actions, I still love and support Israel; and I argue that as Jews, we all should.

Shalom.

[MosheFeingold]

6. "I'm confused about why we can't all just get along and live peacefully together."

Thankfully the heroes who hit the beach in France when I showed up with my type writer were not so confused.

Some people and cultures have a lot of hate and want to kill others just because of who they are.

There's not a lot to do about that, except to fight back.

[MyMission]

7. I am a Levite, אני לבי

I DO appreciate those who protect and defend. I am grateful, and I do pray for them, seriously.

However, it is not in my nature wage war, probably because I am of the tribe of Levi. Perhaps I should have mentioned this earlier in our discussion. I am an observant Jew, attend services religiously, often have the honor of the second Aliyah, and sometimes the responsibility of chanting portions of the Torah. I look forward to (joyfully) singing the Hallel on the festivals, and the new moon; and to studying Torah.

I am inclined, and often compelled to nurture the spirit. When I have conflicts with people, I tend to read and share verses from the Tanakh. Not doing that here, because I don't feel we're having a conflict, just an interesting discussion. I appreciate your spirit. I hope you can appreciate mine.

For those who are not familiar with the role of Levites, I have copied the following.

8. Levites were exempt from general military service. They were not counted in the census of the army in time of Moses or the Judge Deborah. Though relieved of the specific mitzva of waging war, they are required to take part in the mitzva of saving lives in times of direct threat.

The service of the Levite is the service of the spirit. Thus the tribe originally chastised for its warlike behavior became the tribe which exemplified peace, blessing and fraternal harmony. Yet the Levites throughout history were able to rise to the occasion to fight for values when necessary, as in the case of Channuka where they led the Jewish struggle against Greek influence.

www.cohen-levi.org/the_levites/role_of_the_levites.htm

[MosheFeingold]

8. Judah Maccabee was such a hippie

No one is asking you to fight.

The silliness of a “can’t we all get along” mindset in the face of those who wish to commit genocide, however, must be rejected.