Am I wrong to find this offensive?

[WillParkinson]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021166303#post7

Saying that Paul Ryan is an atheist because he's catholic in name only? A bizarre stretch, but claiming he's an atheist just kind of gnaws at me.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Seems to me that he worships...

* The "free market"

* Grover Norquist

* Himself

(I'm sure I've left a few out)

Just because he doesn't listen to the god he claims to believe in doesn't make him a rationalist.

[The Magistrate]

2. To the Degree He is A Devotee Of Ayn Rand And Objectivism, Sir

It is not wholly inappropriate to call him an atheist. We all know some unpleasant, even cruel and evil persons, have been or are atheists.

"Republicans are people: greedy, selfish, cruel, evil people."

[dmallind]

5. Not really

One can easily be a perfect follower of Rand's economics and social policy preference without sharing her atheism. Even objectivist philosophy does not negate theism but merely says that reality exists regardleess of our knowledge or opinions about it. That's like saying all fans of Wagner must be anti-semitic.

[OriginalGeek]

16. On a side note

I sometimes wonder how irrational I'm being when I let my knowledge of Wagner ruin my enjoyment of Ride of the Valkyries. I LOVED the piece before I found out what he was. Now I can't hear it without thinking of that and it just ruins it for me.

[rexcat]

7. At that I will vehemently disagree with you...

that Paul Ryan is an atheist. Paul Ryan does not agree entirely with Ayn Rand, just parts of her drivel. You make a broad, sweeping statement without real evidence to support your claim. From what I can gather he is a catholic, attends the catholic church and receives the sacraments. He is also against abortion for any reason and wants to see hormonally based contraceptives outlawed. A position that Ayn Rand would oppose.

With your logic if you are pro-choice and for hormonally based contraceptives you must support Ayn Rand's philosophy entirely. Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rexcat]

11. Thanks for the insult to atheist in a protected area!

[truebrit71]

3. It's not offensive, just mis-informed imho...

[trotsky]

4. It's the same anti-atheist bigotry found on many threads.

Bad people can't be Catholic (or Christian), ergo they must be atheists.

[Warpy]

6. yeah, it's offensive

but don't expect an alert to do any good.

The "he's a total bastard who doesn't talk about Jebus all the time so he must be an atheist" line is old and tired and says more about the poster's bigotry than it does about either Ryan or atheists.

[Rob H.]

8. It's like I was saying not long ago...

It always seemed to me to be a matter of when people were going to start rallying behind the idea that Ryan isn't a True Catholic™, not if. It's already beyond ridiculous, and it's only August! (I also find it ironic that liberal believers are working so hard to shape people's opinion of him, in a way, by embracing the idea that he should be labeled an atheist rather than just a generally terrible person--which he is--who also happens to be Catholic.)

It seems to me that people want to say he's not a True Catholic™ because he likes Ayn Rand's ideas in much the same way that when asked, people will say that GW Bush wasn't a True Christian™ because he wouldn't have bombed Iraq and demolished our economy if he were. Some religionists want all the credit when religion does something good but fall all over themselves to distance themselves from believers who do terrible things.

[dimbear]

9. Needs polishing. Ryan is a devout Catholic whose favorite philosopher and economic theorist

is a militant atheist. He also enjoys Voltaire, a noted deist from some other country, possibly France.

You have to state this stuff clearly so Republicans can grasp it.

[MineralMan]

10. I often wonder about people who proclaim their faith, but

act against its tenets. It's a question I ask about many people. Are they really atheists, simply making their way by pretending to believe? It's a viable way to make a living, and even more in some cases. I suspect that more religious leaders actually have no belief in the supernatural than anyone would think.

I truly question the Pope's faith, for example. I suspect strongly that there is none, and that he is feigning belief. It's a powerful, prestigious position, something worthy of aspiring to, I'm sure. One can learn the details of a faith without actually believe those details to be true. Surely, we see evidence of that regularly in many fields. Why should religion be any different?

[Mr.Bill]

13. Coincidence?

It's got to be more than coincidence that almost every Atheist I know or have met went to Catholic school, myself included. I once told a so-called born-again Christian about this, and he said "Don't you know? Catholic school is where they train Atheists."

I knew an elderly Catholic priest in the last few years of his life, and he confided in me that he knew the whole thing was all bullshit, nothing but a sales job.

[MineralMan]

14. Atheists come from all sorts of backgrounds.

Among the atheists I know, there doesn't seem to be any pattern, really.

[Mr.Bill]

15. I agree

I realize that the people I "know" are a small sampling. Just making an observation from my corner of the world.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. I'm not even sure if he's a true Scotsman.

But haven't you heard? Atheists are inherently less moral, silly! And anyone who is less moral is probably an Atheist!

Because they don't have that inherent better-making, more moral-ifizing, magic scrubbing soul bubble of effervescent gotta-make-ya-a-better-person character that believing in giant invisible sky-beings confers!

Especially if they're afflicted with testicles.

[ElboRuum]

17. Well, part of a religion...

...is adhering to its precepts. Is a Catholic who does not believe in Catholic principles really a Catholic? The Church might argue that, putting aside excommunication, a Catholic 'ere shall always be a Catholic. But that's really not true in a sense of what purpose religion serves to its adherents.

I wouldn't be all that offended of calling Ryan an atheist, if only to say that he is absent of his own religion, which might very well be true. But he does pray to the altar of Rand and objectivism, which has a certain dogmatism based not too firmly in a reality, so I could legitimately call that a religion.

The only thing the poster is really guilty of is inaccuracy, inerrancy and dogmatism outside of the major religions is still religion.

[Deep13]

18. Offense is an emotional reaction...

There is no right or wrong to it.

[Grave Grumbler]

19. It's not offensive, but it certainly seems incorrect on the face of it.