"Anti-Catholic bigotry"

[Tobin S.]

Yeah, that's a fucking laugh. If you think there is such a thing as anti-Catholic bigotry, or anti-religious bigotry for that matter, try living in a socially conservative area and telling people that you are an atheist or an agnostic. People treat you like you've got cancer and it's contagious.

Those of us who question religion have always been outsiders if we chose to reveal our skepticism. People who believe in a higher power have always been in the vast majority.

Here's a clue for religious people. I don't hate most of you. My wife is an Episcopalian and I love her more than anything. I just don't believe in that bullshit you believe in called religion. Peace and love are great. You don't need a god to practice them.

[YankeyMCC]

1. Maybe you are responding to some specific straw man argument

being made elsewhere but I have to say I have personally experienced anti-catholic bigotry.

I agree, as a fellow atheists, there discrimination and bigotry against the non-religious is a much more prevalent and pervasive problem. However, there is most definitely, even in the US anit-catholic sentiment. In my experience it was in the mid-west.

[Tobin S.]

8. I hadn't thought about it from a religious perpective

As in, a Baptist hating Catholics because of differences in religion. Yes, I was responding to the some claims made here that disagreeing with religious philosophy is somehow bigotry.

[OriginalGeek]

11. Yep, the baptists I grew up with

don't even consider catholics to be christians.

The funny part is how much they despise other religions and are utterly befuddled by people hating theirs.

[defacto7]

29. and the Pope is the Anti-christ...

How many times have I heard someone say that a new pope was the Antichrist... then the next one comes along... Oh, that's the Antichrist.... Every new pope is the Antichrist. Hell, I'm the Antichrist for that matter.

[Warpy]

10. The only time I experienced it was in the south in the 1950s

when I was a kid and parents wouldn't let their kids play with me because the family was Catholic. Yes, the Klan inspired bigotry against Catholics was very real and that bad.

None of the people whining on DU have ever experienced true anti Catholic bigotry or they wouldn't be whining every time the rotten hierarchy of that church is criticized.

I'm very clear about the difference between sensible Catholics at the parish level and the completely corrupt church hierarchy. I have no idea why they continue to hang onto the last vestige of the Roman Empire, but they all seem to want to. They'll just have to cope with the fact that other people have noticed how ugly everything is at the level of bishop and above.

The great Dara O'Briain has pointed out there is no religion quite as adhesive as Irish Catholicism, one reason we "stomped off in sheer disgust" people are still lumped in with the church even when we haven't been for years. Being a stone atheist means I'm a Catholic, just very bad at it.

[Rob H.]

20. I love Dara O'Briain!

I watched a bunch of his stuff recently on YouTube and he's hilarious. This is one of my favorite bits:

"Jesus, homeopaths get on my nerves with the whole, 'Well, science doesn't know everything.' Well, science knows it doesn't know everything! Otherwise, it'd stop."

[progressoid]

22. "Get in the fuckin' sack"

[trotsky]

2. What YankeeMCC said.

Anti-Catholic bigotry certainly exists - have you read any Chick tracts?

The current fevered witch hunt going on, however, isn't about that. It's about anyone who points out that some priests are child rapists, and that they have been protected by the RCC and transferred to parishes with fresh victims. It is ridiculous to call this bigotry of any kind - it's a knee-jerk response designed to silence people who are expressing criticism of the documented behavior of the church's hierarchy.

There is no middle ground right now - either you believe the Catholic church is full of wonderful people who do wonderful things, OR you are an anti-Catholic (and probably anti-religious) bigot.

I swear, it's scary how much this place can look like FreeRepublic sometimes.

[amuse bouche]

3. I detest

all religion ...so there.

[skepticscott]

6. And to the extent that

specific anti-Catholic bigotry (as opposed to anti-theism in general) exists, it is far more prevalent among other religionists. I'll wager that if you asked a hundred atheists and a hundred ultra-conservative Protestants "are Catholics real Christians?", a lot more of the atheists would say yes without hesitation.

[Tobin S.]

9. See post #8. n/t

[Arugula Latte]

15. To me there is a key distinction between bigotry and discrimination.

Bigotry exists everywhere against almost any group you can name. We all know atheists ain't exactly popular in this country, for example. Talk about being a hated group. However, only certain groups have the power to actively discriminate against others in a public policy setting. The Catholic Church has the power and resources to throw its weight behind discriminating against women and gays and to advocate against birth control access, gay marriage, and the like.

So, yeah, some people sound off in a "hating" way about Catholics on the Internet, etc. Cry me a river. Almost all groups are on the receiving end of that from some faction or another (gays, women, blacks, Hispanics, immigrants, liberals, on and on and on ...).

So the Catholics who are rending their clothing about people calling out the hierarchy of the Church for its many evil actions -- in present-day times as well as going back almost 2,000 years -- I say grow some thicker skin. Jesus H. Christ on a cracker. Pun intentional.

[trotsky]

18. That is true.

But as we all know, the martyr complex is such a cornerstone of Christianity - especially so in Catholicism. And when you're the largest, most powerful Christian sect in the world, well, persecution is a little hard to come by. A few people commenting that money put in the collection plate has been used to protect and enable pedophiles (directly or indirectly) is about as good as you're going to get. Better run with it! "Anti-Catholic BIGOTRY!!!!111eleventyone!!"

[Warren Stupidity]

4. Some of the word choices made here on du re the new pope were unfortunate.

The points being made about pedophilia, misogyny, homophobia, participation in Argentinas dirty war were obliterated by those choices. Certainly not one catholic reflected and thought, yes, spot on, fuck the church.

[trotsky]

5. Yes, exactly.

Because of the word choices of a couple of people (whose posts were either locked and/or hidden), now ALL criticism of the church is lumped in with "anti-Catholic bigotry." No middle ground.

[Rob H.]

7. There was someone on another thread yesterday

who claimed that their specific personal religion is part of their DNA. Uh, no. That's just laughably wrong and a pretty good demonstration of complete ignorance about the actual science of genetics. It might feel as if it is, but just...no.

I know what you mean about living in a socially conservative area. At my first job out of college, a woman found out I lived in the same suburb she did and asked where I went to church. When I told her I didn't go to church, she got a horrified look on her face as if horns had just sprouted from my forehead. I thought her reaction was pretty funny, truth be told.

[Curmudgeoness]

12. You can't let the "sky is falling" crowd get to you.

I agree that there is anti-Catholic bigotry---in the United Presbyterian church that I was raised in, we were actually taught that Catholics did not follow the Bible and were all going to hell because of it (false idol worship for all their statues, and those saints that the worship were horrifying!

But unless these same people are willing to do an experiment, and walk in an atheist's shoes, they will never understand the prejudices that we are subjected to. The only thing that I can say about that is that atheists and Catholics both are able to protect themselves from the bigotry just by keeping it to themselves, if it really is too difficult to stand up to your beliefs (or lack thereof).

[Lordquinton]

13. Thank you

Trying to get through to any of them is impossible, I try because it's cheaper than a movie.

[backscatter712]

14. Tactic #967 for derailing criticism of the Roman Catholic Church

Conflate criticism of the assholes in management with criticism of all Catholics, and declare all critics to be bigots.

Didn't you know? We atheists all moonlight in white sheets and burn crosses on Catholics' lawns!

[Arugula Latte]

16. Apparently I'm a bigot now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2539057

[mr blur]

17. You're in good company

Seems like we're all bigots here, according to the biggest actual bigot of the lot.

[progressoid]

19. That must be one long ignore list.

I swear I've seen that poster put a dozen people on ignore in one day.

Congratulations!

[Arugula Latte]

21. She gets a bit unhinged with dissent from her opinions.

The thing I said about Vatican II, which I thought was pretty innocuous, didn't go over well. Not at all.

[smokey nj]

26. I think she's especially touchy about this because she knows even less about

Roman Catholicism than she does anything else about which she fancies herself an expert.

[trotsky]

27. That much has been very clear from her posts.

Another sign of the FOX News-ification of America. My confident ignorance beats your facts and reasoning.

[smokey nj]

28. I also think she picked the side where her condescension would be most annoying.

[awoke_in_2003]

38. I read the whole sub-thread...

and couldn't find anything. She has some thin skin.

[Lordquinton]

25. You begin to wonder when one person is calling a whole bunch of people bigots

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2532163

That mathey are the ones who have the problem.

[truebrit71]

37. And if you're not called a bigot, your posts get alerted and then hidden...

....fuck the RCC...

[backscatter712]

23. And now, the talking point is "Leaving your religion is as easy as leaving your country!"

As if all you have to do is skip across the border and say "Hi, I want to be Canadian today!"

[Ron Obvious]

24. Is this anti-anti-Catholic Bigotry meme orchestrated you think?

I ask because I suddenly notice this outrage everywhere, cranked up to a level of intensity that seems way over the top to me. I wonder if this notion that they're somehow an oppressed minority today is taught in their churches now.

Remember that idiot that said attacking the Vatican for its cover up of paedophile abuse was somehow equivalent to anti-semitism and the Holocaust?

Maybe all this outrage is a sign of the Church's fear that its influence is declining, like a star expanding to a Red Giant at the end of its life, before collapsing to a white dwarf.

Probably not.

[trotsky]

30. It has a lot of elements in common with nationalism.

One poster even said that a parish leaving the church would dilute the "purity" of the Catholic faith.

They get a new pope, the "national pride" is at a high level, they're more sensitive to what they perceive as attacks on their faith, and naturally you get a demonization/dehumanization of the perceived enemy: anti-Catholic "bigots."

[Arugula Latte]

31. Looks like long-time DUer Lionessa got tombstoned for her "bigotry."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022541623#post95

(Oops, I'd gotten her mixed up with another DUer of similar name.)

[Rob H.]

32. ...and now there's someone in that thread

claiming that the RCC and other churches don't have any influence over what laws are passed in the US. Right, because all three branches of our government aren't packed to the rafters with religious types or anything.

[Arugula Latte]

33. You can count on the Opus Dei, er, Supreme Court for those checks and balances, yessirree!

[backscatter712]

35. Obviously those millions of dollars that went to anti-gay-marriage initiatives across the country...

must have been a miracle from God! Because according to certain DU members, they couldn't possibly have come from money raked in from parish collection plates! Nosirree!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

34. I think it may have been more to do with her homosexuality = pedophilia posts

They were pretty bad (look at her transparency page).

[muriel_volestrangler]

36. Yeah, I was ready to defend her, until I noticed those

I would guess that's why Skinner referred to 'groups' in the PPR message - it was more than things about Catholics.

[awoke_in_2003]

39. wow. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. I'd like to suggest that every time someone calls a DU atheist a bigot

or says that they 'support bigotry', we do not reply to it - just alert, making it clear that it is an attack direct on DUers, and thus disruptive and offensive. Don't feed the trolls - try to get Community Standards applied to them. This will help make a case that throwing the 'bigot' accusation around is something we can take action against.

[deucemagnet]

41. Perfect.