Religion: History's very first panopticon.

[backscatter712]

This is just a little brainfart from a discussion I had with my roommate.

Long before there were cameras, before Jeremy Bentham designed the infamous Panopticon, and before Michel Foucault wrote Discipline and Punish, there was religion.

And what does virtually every religion have in common? The big man in the sky, or whatever deity is worshipped, is always, always, always watching you. Even though He or His brethren have an entire universe to manage, they take a personal interest in you, they always have an eye on you, and know when you're misbehaving.

God sits in the panopticon observation tower that is beyond Bentham's dreams - it follows you everywhere, and your imagination ensures you can't penetrate its blinds...

Why have a real panopticon when there's the imaginary panopticon in the sky threatening to punish you with hellfire after you die?

And people question the idea the religion is used to manipulate and control people...

[laconicsax]

1. The New Testament invented thought-crime.

Looking is as bad as touching, thinking is as bad as doing.

[greyl]

2. ?

How was the New Testament new in that regard?

[backscatter712]

3. Very true. Look at the Ten Commandments...

Coveting is a thought-crime, no?

[laconicsax]

4. You're right. My mistake.

[husserl49]

5. Disdain manipulates too.

I do not think it is proper to state that “religion is used to _____”. This sounds as if the idea of religion were deliberately concocted with an explicit goal in mind. The notion is an example of a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy. The idea of religion began very early, at least going back to when groups of people employed an alphabet and wrote about prevailing customs. Early civilization in the Middle East, for example, developed ideas of "something or some force" beyond themselves that contributed more fully to an understanding of human standing and human orientation within the observable cosmos. Some of these beliefs abetted the social organization of those who ruled, those who owned and controlled property, those who maintained social order, and those who worked in order to build a surplus. Event A happened and promoted the proliferation of B. A then B; BUT A did NOT necessarily cause B. The Medieval Orders were similar – those who ruled, those who were God’s anointed, and those who worked to build a surplus. Modern capitalism has its well defined rank and file.

"Religion" certainly contains articles of faith and precepts by which we live. But in many ways religion as ideology functions like liberalism or critical theory or Neo Marxism. Disdain for or outright negation of religion is also an ideology that is quite capable of “manipulating and controlling" its true believers too.

[AlbertCat]

6. Semantics manipulates too

I think, as I'm sure most do, that the word "religion" in the original post means "organized religion" and not musings one might have on our place in the universe.

And organized religion is obviously just ancient government.... and manipulates people.

[husserl49]

8. Organizations organize

Organized religion is simply not ancient government. I assume you reference the Middle East early “governments” such as Sumerians, Assyrians, Egyptians, and Hittites. Roman religion was hardly organized. Greeks had faith in the “Gods”.
Organized social groups like Veterans Association, the AARP, Teamsters Union, the Democratic Party, the Sierra Club espouse rules that advocate ways of behavior and discourages other types of behavior. Organized groups are just that – organized. If one belongs to a group then one comports to the group’s rules of membership and in that way they are “manipulated”. The concept of manipulation implies something sinister in that the act of manipulating induces one to behave in a way that he otherwise would not engage in.

[FiveGoodMen]

9. What do you think of Pat Robertson?

What do you think of the SBC pre-approving Bush's wars?

[AlbertCat]

14. Organized religion is simply not ancient government.

"I assume you reference the Middle East early “governments”"

No. I mean every civilization that has a priest- or shaman-like tribe member who uses some supernatural "power" or claim to exert power over the tribe. This could be everywhere on the planet and deep back into prehistory. All the way up to Kings who rule by divine right... Like George III did. Or Michele Bachmann or Rick Santorum who make religious claims to their superiority to run things.

[rexcat]

7. Religion probably pre-dates literacy...

and welcome to DU.

[lindysalsagal]

11. negation of religion is also an ideology

No. it's not. These are not teams: Life is not football. This only seems like it's athiests vs believers because believers want something from athiests that they won't get: Affirmation in the tooth fairy, or whatever else you believe in.

There is no title for people who don't believe in the tooth fairy, or don't believe in luck, or don't believe in unicorns, or don't believe in lucky charms. They're called grown ups.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

12. What's this "negation of religion" you refer to?

Is that like the hobby of not collecting stamps? You have the mistaken idea that ideologies are all created equal, when they're not. For example, I'm against sexism in all its forms. But that doesn't mean that my viewpoint should be considered equally as valid as one that espouses sexist discrimination. And yes, my disdain for sexism could be seen as manipulating sexists, but neither the disdain or manipulation are bad things, are they?

You're mostly correct with your post hoc proposition, but it's hard to deny that organized religion in many of its modern incarnations is an anchor on progress. I would argue that enlightenment is far more likely to be attained through science than superstition.

[awoke_in_2003]

13. Regardless of what early ideas caused the formation of religion...

people caught on that it could be used to control people. There is a reason that nobility embraced religion, because religion can be used to control the masses.

[Deep13]

10. I think you're right.

It's the ultimate in surveillance/power-knowledge. Like the Panopticon prisoners, believers can never really be sure if they are being watched, so they watch themselves.