Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumHas anyone ever asked you...
...how you became an atheist, with the implication in their demeanor and tone of voice they were looking for guidance?
I read a post by one of us (please forgive me, for I don't remember in what thread or who posted it) that they, unlike the presumed majority of us, came to their atheism through some definitive tragic and painful moments in their life and not through a long term philosophical enlightenment (with apologies to those were were never "inflicted" with faith in the first place).
That post has been rattling around in my head ever since I read it. Can't shake it.
It lead me to a memory of a deep wine fueled conversation with my in-laws, who were catholic from childhood, where they openly revealed to me that they had lost their faith. The explained that the loss was due primarily to the various catholic priest pedophile scandals that had been occurring along with other observations and events in their lives (e.g. loss of their parents and a recent spate of traveling). They seemed to make a point of letting me know since, I presume, I was never silent about my atheism. They subtly indicated to me that they were interested in learning about and how to be an atheist. However, I felt I was in no position to help them along, philosophically, at the time other than to suggest a few books to read (e.g. Why I am Not a Christian). I also didn't feel it was right to be evangelical, a reversion to atheism should be organic, and didn't feel I had the back ground to provide good guidance since my grounding was more intuitive and had not yet reached out to engage the full discussion as I have done in later years with much reading. Consequently, I have always felt I failed them in a way.
Which leads me (finally ) to my question...(with apologies for the holy epic background with preamble)...
...if a good friend, who had recently found that their faith was gone, asked you with honest sincerity to help them on a path that would lead to a better understanding of atheism, what would you tell them? How would you go about it?
Is there some future analogous "12 Step Program" for faith?
(or a 2-step or a 30-step or an infinite step, if the 12-step analogy is unpalatable)
And if so, what would your program include?
For my part, I might start with:
1) Ask yourself if you can accept the fact that there is no afterlife?
2) Contemplate that you can decide what is moral, using empathy, not entity(ies).
3) Can you strive to improve yourself and the lives of others?
4) ...
Thoughts?
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)Maybe this is because of my personal experience with the process of becoming atheist. It was an internal process and I don't feel comfortable with trying to push someone before they are ready.
What I would do, though, is let them know that there is nothing wrong with being an atheist. I have always tried to show people by my life and actions that a belief in god is not necessary to being a well-rounded and moral person....and I think that is the most important way to get people to feel more comfortable in starting their journey.
kdmorris
(5,649 posts)like curmudgeoness, it was pretty internal for me, complete with fears that my family would disown me if I ever told them that I didn't believe.
Marrying my husband was actually the impetuous for me to be able to begin truly exploring how *I* felt. He is an atheist and that gave me the courage to finally say outloud "I just don't believe in this crap". I did eventually tell my family and after a bit of a rocky start, they are sometimes still talking to me. We do not talk about politics or religion when we talk... ever...
There is nothing that anyone could have done to "guide me" to where I ended up... I had to think it out for myself and determine that I just don't believe it. All my husband did was enable me to have someone who would always love me and "have my back" if my family did shun me. It was a hard path and I'm pretty sure it's different for everyone. I don't think, even in this group, that any two of us got there the same way.
But I'm one of those people for whom atheism is not really a "plan" or "program". I just simply don't believe there is a god.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)What is there to understand? Either you believe there's a god or you don't.
I accept though that it might be different if you live in a country where one might be afraid to reveal it to one's family; if you live in a fairly secular country where nobody really cares then it isn't a worry.
A HERETIC I AM
(24,365 posts)What led to my Atheism was a better understanding of the God of Abraham and Isaac.
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)... maybe in the vein of the Clergy Project
http://www.clergyproject.org/
for the average Jane/Joe.
It would all be after one self identifies as atheist.
How to provide support (not necessarily tangible) for someone who has recently lost their faith.
Kind of discussed here:
http://www.atheistrev.com/2014/05/four-things-we-can-do-to-make-more.html
Support Atheists
In the United States and many other countries, atheism is thoroughly stigmatized. As we disseminate accurate information about atheism, dispel misconceptions about atheists, and publicly identify ourselves as atheists, this will change. In the meantime, it is vital that we understand that the social stigma attached to atheism is a big obstacle for many religious believers wrestling with doubt and for those in the early stages of leaving their faith behind. They will need our support.
Some of the support we need to be prepared to provide is tangible. Atheist teenagers are still being kicked out of their family homes for disclosing their atheism. They will need housing and financial assistance. Many more atheists will need social and emotional support. Coming out as an atheist can have serious social and occupational consequences, placing considerable stress on the new atheist. Support in the form of affordable mental health services is important, as are opportunities for social interaction with like-minded persons.
Many recent atheists who were formerly religious believers are going to miss the many social opportunities provided by religion. Just because you or I might not have much interest in contrived social gatherings with other atheists does not mean we should not support them. Having these opportunities available is vital to many people.
emphasis is mine
Maybe all I am asking for here is for the development of a list of resources or activities that could be provided to a newly reverted atheist to help them. To share our ideas and personal experiences amongst ourselves to help others in the transition (after the fact).
Thinking out loud here.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)As I suggested above, these are problems I've never really considered. You may find it hard to believe, but everywhere I've ever lived in England it would be the person who suddenly revealed that they were "saved" or converted to a strong religious identity who would attract the mutterings and the
I remember years ago I said to someone I'd recently met, "Actually, I'm an atheist" and he said, "So what's new, who isn't?"
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)You know, first you acknowledge that there is a higher power, then, oh wait, that won't fucking work. Ok how about an 11 step program....
Brainstormy
(2,380 posts)which began more than twenty years ago but was a process rather than an "event." The best thing I believe we can do for anyone looking to us for support is to introduce them to writers and thinkers on the subject. Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, Dennett, etc. These were invaluable to me as starting points but I've since become quite the student of comparative religions also. This was an intellectual journey for me. Maybe it isn't for everyone. But there's a lot of support and community out there now that wasn't there once.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)FREE YOURSELF FROM ANCIENT SUPERSTITIONS.
That's all you have to do.
Realize that even "big" notions like a god or a soul, or anything supernatural exists, were just guesses made back in the Stone Age based on ignorance and feelings.
We've learned some things since.
P. S.
Ancient superstitions are fascinating to study. They reveal interesting psychological phenomenons as human societies evolve thru time.
But living your life by them to creating an identity from them is just ridiculous. They (should) have no real authority anymore.
Promethean
(468 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Only because I suspect that what I may tell them might make too much sense and that scares them.
They're always trying to figure out where I went wrong.