Weird/Unprofessional situation at work---what would you do?

[Heddi]

So I work at a medical clinic, and everyone is like PRAISE JESUS...employees, I mean. I work in Philadelphia but this is no bastion of free thought...at least not here.

So this morning, I was walking through the parking lot to get to the building and the security guard, who's a nice enough guy, comes up and tells me that every Monday morning, "we" have prayer in the new boss's office (and perhaps when the old boss was there too, but no idea) precisely at 830 every monday and I should come.

It was drizzling, I had to pee, and my hands were full. It's a really fucking awkward situation to tell someone "oh hai no thx I no believe in God, gotta go!"....

I mean, what if I don't go? While this guy has no sway over my raise (at the end of the year, we are evaluated for a yearly raise and high performers are evaluated to get a portion of an-up-to $4500 a year bonus), but my boss does. It's held in her office. Does that mean that by going, I'm a "high performer?" If don't go, do I risk losing my raise and/or my bonus (I'm pretty sure I'm going to get at least 50%, if not the entire $4500 for this year, and a sizeable raise as well....at least when my old boss was there)?

I work for one of the 100 largest health care companies in the world, but because we're a clinic, the corporate so'n'so's don't really care about us....but do care about is in other ways.

I make a lot of money where I work. Like, $15k raise from my last job, busting my balls in the ER. I can still be an RN, but at a desk, not dealing with people and chest tubes and codes. Patients are sick, and I work all day without lunch, work all day without a break, and generally work over every day, but much happier without the stress of the ER.

Do I complain? File a formal complaint? I don't like feeling like....I guess think Golf Club networking....go play golf with the boys, and you're more "in" than if you don't play golf. I don't have any evidence whatsoever that my job performance will be based on my participation in an on-site, during-work-hours prayer meeting....but what if it is?

And it is during work hours---my hours are 8-5. Clinic hours are 8-7. Prayer meeting is 830 on Monday.

Seriously---what should I do? There's the "OH YEAH FUCK THEM" but my landlord doesn't take "fuck you, job" for rent payments....

[Heddi]

4. Seriously? No different than an office dinner?

It's organized prayer. in my boss's office. During work hours.

NOTHING like a work dinner.

And my desire to "reap a great bonus?" Yes, how dare I want to get paid according to the work I do, and get regular merit raises, regardless of my desire to participate in group prayer LED BY MY BOSS IN HER OFFICE DURING WORK HOURS.


How about the fact that I make up one, and in the past two of the letters in the GBLT rainbow. That I find the religious beliefs of my coworkers (an even smattering between Evangelical Christian, Southern Baptist, and Catholic) to be an absolute anthesis to my beliefs of how other people should be treated. *I* have been mistreated because of the religious beliefs of others. MY FRIENDS are still mistreated, prevented from marrying the people they love, because of the political interference of these groups.

But I should just go, hey, what's the problem

Hey, there's a KKK meeting in the boss's office tomorrow. Wanna go? See you there.

Fucking disgusting.

Every time you post in this group, I wonder why you post in this group. You are no friend to Atheists, or our concerns.

[Heddi]

8. So let's say I'm the only person that doesn't go

Does that change the dynamics? Would I then have cause to see this as more than 'under god" in the pledge of allegiance?

First, you tell me it seems like I'm only interested in the financial repercussions of not going. That sounds a lot like the eye-rolling associated with people who bring sexual harassment claims. Hey, what's the big deal? Just go along with it? Just say no...what's the big deal... etc

Yes. I am interested in the financial repercussions of it. If the only thing stopping me from getting a raise is my non-attendance at a prayer meeting, you don't see that as a problem? If the percentage of my bonus is based on my attendance or non-attendance at a prayer meeting, you think that's okay?

Then, you tell me it's ultimately wasted energy to even protest it. So why try? Just lay back and enjoy it, right?

Your deep concern for issues affecting Atheists is so very appreciated. Such concern. Such deep concern.

And my dear, you *never* fail to disappoint. I see your name, and I know *exactly* what your post is going be full of.

[mr blur]

37. I don't know you so I have to wonder why you feel the need to be offensive

and condescending in your reply to Heddi's postings. You appear to live in a somewhat different world from the rest of us. Anyway, welcome to Ignore where, I suspect, your friends and allies are waiting for you.

[beam me up scottie]

7. I wasn't sure how to take that post.

My initial reaction was similar to yours.

Seriously, wtf?

Like we have no reason to distrust the religious and their agenda...

[Heddi]

9. Hey it's no big deal

Just my job....and I'm only interested in the money....greedy atheist....

[Gelliebeans]

10. Is he a contracted security guard?

If so contact his company and file a complaint if he ever says anything like that again to you .

I might let this go this one time if he is with your company but if anyone mentions your absence again from another dept perhaps? Then you will know it is definetly a way to pressure you by higher ups without your boss actually mentioning it.

I would file a complaint if it is mentioned again. It is none of their business what you believe in or don't believe.
Disclaimer I do not know the state laws about employee/employer in PA.*

I guess I would go on gut feeling (is he the one that has noticed your truancy) or do you think he is a patsy for your boss?

Gosh I wish I had better advice?


Edited to add that I WOULD NOT GO and pretend they were sending you an invite that is legal to refuse.

[AlbertCat]

32. During work hours.

Can you sorta make sure you are really busy at 8:30 on Mondays..... at least until you get your raise?

[Iggo]

40. "It's organized prayer. in my boss's office. During work hours."

Here's your response next time they bring it up:

"Organized prayer? In the boss's office?During work hours?" Then laugh a loud and hearty laugh, while shaking your head and saying, "Wow! How bad is this place trying to get sued?!?!"

[JNelson6563]

42. Oh! Oh! I know! Pick me!

He posts here because others can't!

What do I win?

Julie

[mr blur]

45. Guess...

[JNelson6563]

46. Thank you!

I must admit, I have always dreamed of this day!! Thank you!

Julie--the unworthy

[Heddi]

49. Oh Mr Blur, I don't think the internets are yours to give

I am not aware of any proclamation that you own any or all part of the internet. How can you give away something that isn't yours? The internet belongs to all of us. Not just you. Please stop being so selfish.

[mr blur]

52. I must obey the voices -

DAKSWIN told me to do it!!1!

[kdmorris]

50. I just wanted to say that you are fairly eggregiously wrong

It's like a dinner party? Don't you want your bonuses and raised to be based on your performance and not how much ass kissing you do?

If everyone was meeting to have an orgy and you felt pressured to participate, it would be sexual harassment. To me, this is no different, but with religion being so prevalent in this country - no one (including apparently you) gives a shit if someone is pressured based on their religious non-belief.

Are you actually atheist? If so, why do you fail to see how fucked up this is? Why is your only advice "just go and throw away all your principles and suck up to them so that you can get the raise. It's not that hard to pretend to be something that you disagree with" That's fairly ridiculous advice, frankly.

And "get a different job then" is just about as ridiculous.

[mr blur]

53. How sad that is.

I hate ball games, but I feel like I'll get shittier assignments or less attention if I don't participate.

[Heddi]

61. I work for a medicare provider.

Federal money is my bread and butter.

This is my last post to you because you are rude, come to this group solely to antagonize regular posters here, and act like a general jerk to atheists and agnostics. I knew something was wrong with you when you made that disgusting post after the Newtown shooting about the shooter choosing his weapon poorly, since a mossberg is better for up close shooting and how other weapons were better choices for shooting up a gaggle of first graders. Then the other day you post thst a man who was improperly imprisoned for 100 days for not going to court ordered religious 12 step wasn't inconvenienced in any way.

Your postings lead any thinking person to assume you are incapable of empathizing with people. Your posts come across as either flipant or cruel, often a combination of the two.

For jurors who will be inadvertently called to this post by alert nannies, please do a Google search on the cached version of nyc_skp's post titled 'would you kiss your mossberg with that mouth' . Such filth should have called for an instant banning. Instead he self deleted and only was sorry that he was misunderstood.

[beam me up scottie]

62. .

not many things on DU make me go wow

but wow

[AtheistCrusader]

64. Jury Results.

On Fri Oct 17, 2014, 09:00 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I work for a medicare provider.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1230&pid=29962

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

NYC_SKP never wrote "would you kiss your mossberg with that mouth". This is a mean and false accusation and beyond uncivil.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Oct 17, 2014, 09:16 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Searched as requested by Heddi. Found post. Sure enough. True enough.
Wish we could all just get along though.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Accusation does NOT sound like NYC_SKP at all, sounds like a mistake, so leave it and continue.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: If you don't want to see someone's posts, put them on Ignore. We don't need to see personal feuds.

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Heddi]

66. wow. I'm on someone's shit list lately

Note to self: avoid bullshit juries by posting more glittery unicorn farts, less harsh truths

[Warren Stupidity]

67. make sure you put "trigger alert" and "NSFW" in the title.

Some people are very sensitive about unicorn farts.

[AtheistCrusader]

68. Idunno. Those were pretty decent jury results.

[Heddi]

70. Oh, yeah. The Jury was great. I mean that someone is scouring my posts

looking for any little thing to get hidden. I think that post there makes, like, the 5th post (that I'm aware of) this week that was alerted for bullshit, and saved from a hide by a great margin.

I think that the "if a jury dismisses your alert 0-6, you can't alert for 24 hours" rule is great. I'd go one further and say "if a jury dismissed, by any margin, 3 consecutive alerts, then you can't alert for 1 month.

I mean, I've alerted on clear rule violations that have been shot down--I think i've only had 1 0-6 in my history of alerting. But I've never gotten 3 shot down in a row. I think I may have gotten, at most, 5 alerts ever that didn't go my way. I'm not bragging, I'm just saying that one can alert on everything in a shot-gun manner, in the hopes that something sticks, or one can actual alert on posts that really do violate the TOS of DU. Ones that you don't need a secret decoder ring to figure out.

The people alerting on my posts haven't figure that out.

[mr blur]

65. And...Woooosh!

[Warren Stupidity]

69. It apparently managed to embarrass itself.

Last edited Sat Oct 18, 2014, 12:49 PM - Edit history (1)

However, the equally awful, although less personal, comments regarding the atheist awarded 2M for getting tossed in prison for 100 days for not refusing to be religious are still up. Until they aren't. Why do people post stuff that even they consider so vile that they have to go back and erase what they've done? I thought the whole point was to bask in the glory of the outrage that ensues.

[kdmorris]

58. No, you said it in Reply #13

I just didn't feel like replying to ALL of your posts, so I consolidated.

[beam me up scottie]

59. I lost my last job partially because I didn't "participate" and was outed as an atheist.

How is going to a ball game the same thing as being forced to attend religious services?

"I can be an atheist without hating on others who want to be believers"

Good for you Mr. I Think I'm Wonderful, but no one here is "hating" on anyone, we just want to live our lives without getting fucked because we're not like the other 85%, but thanks for calling us bigots.

"Be mindful, be calm, observe and reflect. Take action where it can make a positive difference."

Would you advise a multi-racial person to either attend Klan meetings on company time or just pretend they're not offended by them?

How about telling them you don't think it's healthy to become too upset with racists?



Your willful ignorance and condescension proves you're not as tolerant as you want everyone to think you are.

If you were, you'd have stopped way before you reached asshole mode and apologized.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

60. I'm only going to ask this once

Don't post in A&A anymore. You have nothing to offer us, you're not on our side, and your posting history in A&A demonstrates both.

[beam me up scottie]

2. I wish I had some good advice.

I've posted here about my last employer's daily prayer sessions during work hours and we all know how that ended.

I got what I deserved for working in a 'Christian Workplace' I guess (except it wasn't one when I started there).

[Turbineguy]

3. Go once at least to show you have an open mind.

Then you can always say, "no thanks."

[Heddi]

5. I don't have an open mind, though. Religion doesn't belong at work

I don't work for a religious organization. I work for a private health care company. There isn't one word referencing God in the entire company mission, philosophy, or statement.

Religion belongs at home, at church, in religious schools. I don't believe in an organized, weekly prayer meeting run by my fucking boss on company property during work hours, where employees are "solicited" to attend. "I'll be looking for you" was what he said before I walked in the building.

It's creepy. It's encroaching. It's unprofessional.

But Hey! It's just Christians. According to a most noble poster upthread, I'm only interested in getting my bonus and nothing else. No, I'm actually interested in working somewhere where I don't feel slightly bullied into attending a prayer meeting during company time.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. an open mind to coerced religiosity?

No thanks.

It is a horrible situation. Suppose instead of being an atheist Heddi was, for example, Jewish. No problem at all with a demand appearance at a Christian prayer meeting?

[mr blur]

54. How is feeling pressured to do something unreasonable that pisses you off having "an open mind"?

I mean, really?

[Curmudgeoness]

11. I won't not go.

I would be really pissed if they withheld my bonus or raise based on the fact that I did not show up for prayer meetings, but to me, money isn't everything as long as I have enough money to survive and pay all my bills. Even with that said, I think that if you are doing a good job, you will not be penalized. But I can't be sure of that. When the raises/bonuses come out, you will know more about whether you have to start showing up.

But I think that using this should shut them up:

Matthew 6:5-6 New International Version (NIV)

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

You don't have to admit that you think this is bunk, but tell them that this is "what you belief about prayer". Because it is, right?

[cleanhippie]

16. Great advice!

[Gelliebeans]

18. Good advice

[Warpy]

12. I'd show up and work through their jebus bothering session

I'd also hide in the "I'm not religious" closet.

I'd also be saving every nickel I could because I'd know the next job review would not be good. I would be looking for a different job within the corporation all the time and outside the corporation the closer to the review point I got.

I don't think they'll fire you outright, but you've seen your last raise there. Christers who try to bully everyone into daily yammer at nothing sessions are likely to bully you in other ways.

There are other jobs that don't involve dealing with belligerent drunks in an ER. Start looking.

[cleanhippie]

14. Just don't go. Don't inquire, just don't go.

And if asked why you didn't go, just respond with "My favorite verse isMatthew 6:6, so..."

Then get back to work.

YMMV

[AlbertCat]

33. And if asked why you didn't go,

say you were busy..... y'know.... working....


Maybe act a little disappointed and suggest they have them at 7:30 instead.







Then show up to work at 8:00 as usual.....

[deucemagnet]

17. Could you call in an anonymous tip about what's going on?

I'm sure the higher-ups don't want the new boss doing anything that could potentially result in a lawsuit.

[Heddi]

21. there is an ethics hotline

which is anonymous. I think it's more about medical fraud and fraudulent billing, though. I'll have to check it out.

[deucemagnet]

22. Good. You shouldn't have to put up with that. n/t

[trotsky]

38. I like deucemagnet's suggestion.

Activity like this could expose them to a significant lawsuit. They'll be interested.

[Mr.Bill]

19. I had a boss once (medical supplies company)

who was not having prayer sessions, but talked fundie christianity all day. I could handle that, but when she said catholics are going to hell for being idol worshipers, that was enough. Although I'm an Atheist, my wife is catholic (non practicing) as is the rest of my family. I went straight to her boss and told her about it. The timing was coincidence, but I moved on to another job and she got fired.

[Heddi]

20. Thanks everyone---When I win my billion dollar "religious discrimination" OR "shut up and go away"

settlement, what should I do with the cash?

A FB friend suggested I hold my own religious thing. Think I'm gonna get some hot satan chicks and have black mass in my office every day at, oh, 4:20. Making out with chicks in my office and smoking a big fat blunt is part of my religious beliefs. j/k.

[Lordquinton]

24. two questions

What's your religion and where is your office?

[Heddi]

25. Two duh answers

whatever entails making out with hot chicks and smoking bluts
pennsylvania

[Lordquinton]

48. I did a google search

for "Making out with hot chick religion" and all that came up was Chick-fil-a

Also searched for Pennsylvania, no results.

[Gelliebeans]

28. Have a big

Kicking ass party and invite all of us duh!!! Jk

[cleanhippie]

43. Now THATS a religion I could believe in!

[Promethean]

23. It has all been said already in thread.

So all I can really do is offer my sympathy. I do hope your situation just blows over to no effect but all I can think of is a quote that I cannot attribute at this time "Plan for the worst, hope for the best."

[Heddi]

26. I'm looking at the Majors, seeing which one is most offensive that I can convert to

I'd say Islam, but we have a lot of patients who are NOI, so wearing a burka/headscarf would just be like "okay big deal can I have your pulled pork sandwich." Same with JW's...lots of them, no one cares.

I'd say scientologist but no one knows who they are here (one of my co-workers was surprised that Tom Cruise went to college and wondered what for since he's a Scientistologist).

Satanist would be offensive just because of the "satan". I'd be expected to wear black nail polish, but that turns my fingernails yellow, so kind of nasty.

Jewish is out of the question---they'd just want to convert me to quickening the second coming. So same boat, same destination.

I'm really at a loss. Which is a big religion that people are scared of but lets you eat pork? Because I am NOT giving up my pork

[Promethean]

27. If you are going to go that route I say out fundy them.

Act so extremely christian that they don't want you there. Odds are you've read the bible more than them anyways so it shouldn't be so hard to pull off.

[beam me up scottie]

29. !

With Heddi's flair for the dramatic that could be hilarious.

[beam me up scottie]

30. "Which is a big religion that people are scared of but lets you eat pork? "

Atheism, of course. Radical secularism is ruining the country.

[AlbertCat]

34. Jainism? Shinto? Siek?

Got a sari or kimono?

[LostOne4Ever]

56. Voodoo Priestess

You could make some crochet dolls and freak them all the fuck out

[ZombieHorde]

31. Fucking lame.

Sorry you have to put up with that shit. So creepy.

[onager]

35. Tough one. I'd probably...

Go to your boss first, in private. Tell her you don't want to join the Jesus-grope but feel pressured to do so, and are worried it may affect your job.

Don't know how much of a Krazy Khristian your boss is. But in today's corporate culture, the phrase "feel pressured/worried about job" SHOULD function as a nice loud dog-whistle. She should translate it as: You know this crap is illegal and I might be talking to my lawyer soon.

After that, if she persists in the Xian sales pitch, go to her boss. And drop the hammer.

I had a brief and unhappy stint being a manager once. Not for me, I'm basically a loner. Never had to deal with a problem like yours. I did have to deal with some amazingly stupid sexual harassment stuff. When a woman says "I'm not interested," that's not subject to Talmudic interpretation where it magically comes out as "Yes, she really is interested in me." And those unwanted Teddy Bears and flowers DELIVERED TO WORK will not change things. That guy got fired but it took awhile. I HATED dealing with that kind of crap.

But oh boy, did I love my gossipy Xian co-workers! So I can relate to that part of your dilemma. With the backing of my boss, I deliberately recruited women. That meant I was "building a harem." And when I hired Persons Of Suspicious Pigmentation & Language, I was "building my own little United Nations."

[muriel_volestrangler]

36. I would not go; drop hints that they need people like you to be available during the clinic hours

while they're taking paid time off to do their networking when the clinic is open. If you think the pressure is still there (and you should be able to decline the security guard OK; it's if the boss gets involved), say you're not one for public prayer; if necessary, drop Matthew 6:6 into the conversation:

"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6"But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.…

http://biblehub.com/matthew/6-5.htm

but without directly using the 'hypocrite' word. Just say it's the way you were brought up. That way, they have to start criticising your parents to begin their argument.

[RussBLib]

39. have no idea, but I think I agree most with onager

Go to your boss, tell them you don't want to go and why - you're an atheist. Better to be honest and stand up for yourself than slink around with fear and stay in the shadows.

[sinkingfeeling]

41. I wouldn't attend. If asked again, explain that you keep your beliefs private.

[CrispyQ]

44. Schedule a poker game at the same time.

Seriously, the company is okay with prayer meetings on company time? I'd go to HR, but your boss will likely find out that the complaint came from you, in spite of what HR tells you about confidentiality and all. I read above that you have an ethics line - use it! This is not like a ball game or a movie with co-workers. Want to pray? Go to church or keep it to yourself. There is just something self-righteous about this whole thing. It's like, "Oh look, you heathens, at us holy people."

[Arugula Latte]

47. Can you imagine how certain DUers would shit a brick if the situation were flipped?

Those MILITANT ATHEISTS trying to force their agenda on people at work -- HOW DARE THEY?!?!

Good luck, Heddi. This whole thing blows.

[LostOne4Ever]

57. Personally, I would try and make an ambiguous statement like "that not really my thing"

And just have a wait and see approach.

If I did not get my bonus, I would then go to the boss and inquire about it. From there I would then go over her head to her boss.

I also like the hotline idea, but I have never been in such a situation so I don't know how sound my advise is with regards to your situation.

[Gore1FL]

63. This is what I would do if I didn't want to out myself as an atheist.

I would say this:

I can't go to a prayer meeting; I am a Christian, and in Matthew 6:5-6 Jesus specifically told us not to pray in public like hypocrites, but to pray in private.

Thank you so much for inviting me, but I can't do it and stay true to my beliefs.