!DAWKINS!1! to appear on Finnish heavy-metal album

[onager]

For a drooling, clueless, nearly senile, privileged racist misogynist old coot...that guy sure gets around.

He's apparently appearing as a guest vocalist on the next album by the Finnish heavy-metal band Nightwish. They are fans of his writing.

This doesn't appear to be a Poe or other hoax. Googling turns up several hits on the story, all in the past few days:

http://metalhammer.teamrock.com/news/2014-10-16/nightwish-album-to-include-dawkins-guest-spot

[arcane1]

1. Cool, a new Nightwish is on the way!!

[Cartoonist]

2. Been there, done that

Stephen Hawking on a Pink Floyd song.

It would be different if it was a compositional collaboration.

Question: Any misogyny on previous Nightwish albums?

[arcane1]

5. Yes, Nightwish's music is full of misogyny, which is why they're inviting him on.

[Cartoonist]

6. Just asking

Heavy metal isn't known for being passive. Dawkins can do what he likes, but if he complains about being associated with misogyny when he walks right into it, then I would consider him to be a very stupid man.

[arcane1]

7. And what, exactly, does this have to do with the OP?

The OP is about walking into a recording studio. I'm sure whatever you're talking about can be discussed somewhere else that's more relevant.

[Cartoonist]

8. Is the OP about Dawkins?

This isn't the music group, it's the A&A group. I think my question is relevant, so I'll ask it again: Is there anything in Nightwish's long and glorious career that in any way can be misunderstood to be misogynistic? I don't know Nightwish from Menudo, but I am familiar with Heavy Metal. After what Dawkins has been through, if I was his publicist, I would advise against bad associations. If Nightwish is one of those peace, love and understanding heavy metal bands, then I say, go with it.

[LostOne4Ever]

10. Its actually a symphonic metal band

Last edited Tue Oct 21, 2014, 03:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Its kind of like a combination of Opera and metal...Which isn't what most people think of when they hear the term HEAVY Metal.

They tend to like to have their songs tell a story. The closest mainstream band to that (which I am able to think of off the top of my head) is Evanescence

[Cartoonist]

11. Sounds interesting

I like crossing genres. But that's why I asked. What kind of lyrics do they write? I know they have them because I found out they recently changed their lead female singer whan I did a search for Nightwish misogyny. Most of the links were forums, so I still don't know if there is a connection or not. I give them the benefit of the doubt, but would caution Dawkins to do a little more research than me.

[LostOne4Ever]

12. From the Albums I have they tend to do traditional ballads

though they do make use fantasy and religious imagery.

The closest song I can think of that might be considered misogynistic are a couple of songs they did in response to firing their first lead singer. Here is one of them:

[center]Bye Bye Beautiful[/center]

Finally the hills are without eyes
They are tired of painting a dead man's face
red with their own blood

They used to love having so much to lose
Blink your eyes just once and see everything in ruins

{Chorus:}
Did you ever hear what I told you?
Did you ever read what I wrote you?
Did you ever listen to what we played?
Did you ever let in what the world said?
Did we get this far just to feel your hate?
Did we play to become only pawns in the game?
How blind can you be, don't you see?
You chose the long road, but we'll be waiting

Bye bye, beautiful

Jacob`s ghost for the girl in white
Blindfold for the blind
Dead Siblings walking the dying Earth

Noose around a choking heart
Eternity torn apart
Slow toll now the funeral bells

"I need to die to feel alive"

{Chorus}

Bye bye, beautiful

It's not the tree that forsakes the flower
But the flower that forsakes the tree
Someday I`ll learn to love these scars
Still fresh from the red-hot blade of your words

How blind can you be, don't you see?
That the gambler lost all he does not have...

{Chorus}

Bye bye, beautiful

Honestly, I think they are more angry than anything. I wouldn't call anything they do misogynic myself.

Of course, the way they fired both their first and 2nd singers singers were pretty crappy in my opinion. The first one they couldn't even do it face to face so they gave her a letter and told her to open it the next day. They then put the letter online.

The second singer they supposedly fired because she got pregnant and she wanted to postpone their tour and didn't want to find a temporary replacement during her maternity leave.

If you are interested here are a few songs by their various vocalists

[center]Tarja Turunen[/center]
[center]Anette Olzon[/center]
[center]Floor Janson[/center]

[Cartoonist]

13. It's all relative

The lyrics you posted seem OK. Their action towards their lead singers is only a problem if the singers make a big deal about it.

John Lennon was a bit of a misogynist as well as other problems regarding the disabled. I wouldn't have advised Dawkins against appearing with the Beatles.

Run For Your Life

Well I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or you won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

Well I know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line

Let this be a sermon
I mean everything I've said
Baby, I'm determined
And I'd rather see you dead
-

He later regretted that one, but he has been accused of beating women.

[beam me up scottie]

14. Nothing to do with Dawkins

One of my favourite bands is Better Than Ezra. One could argue that the lyrics to the hauntingly beautiful song 'Porcelain' are misogynistic and promote domestic violence.

Better Than Ezra – Porcelain

Hey, you've got a lot of nerve
Showin' your face around here
Hey, you've got a lot of nerve
To dredge up all my fears
Well I wish I could shake some sense into you

And walk out the door
But your skin is like porcelain
Yeah your skin is like porcelain

Just the other day I felt, I had you by a string
Just the other day I felt, we could be everything
But now when I see you, you're somebody else

With somebody's eyes
And your skin is like porcelain
Yeah your skin is like porcelain
I don't know what I'm sayin'
Well, I don't know if you're there
In the words you are fadin
Do you even care, yeah

Well I wish I could kill you, savor the sight
Get into my car, drive into the night
Then lie as I scream to the heavens above
That I was the last one you ever loved

Not trying to be argumentative, I just wondered how we can tell if the lyrics truly reflect the emotions of the song writer, in this case Kevin Griffin, or if it's art.

[Cartoonist]

15. re Dawkins

The only point I am trying to make, and its only my point of view, is that one has to be careful what is said and who you hang out with. It didn't always have to be this way, and maybe that's an improvement. If someone was to ask me to appear with Rush L. and pretend to be happy while he slipped me a million bucks, I wonder if I would do it.

[beam me up scottie]

16. okay

Just thought I'd ask a question. I adore Kevin but it's not like I've never wondered if I should like some of the other people who write songs I enjoy.

Really had nothing to do with your point about Dawkins.

[Iggo]

17. AKA "Happy Metal"

[LostOne4Ever]

3. All of the Power/Symphonic Metal Bands I know of seem to be either pagan

Or in the spiritual but not religious camp.

Within Temptation (one of my faves) IIRC actively identify as a pagan band and some of their lyrics tend to shift between belief and disbelief quite often.

There is one chorus in the song "Faster" that I particularly love:

I can’t live in a fairytale of lies.
And I can’t hide from the feeling cause it’s right.
And I go faster and faster and faster and faster for love.
And I can’t live in a fairytale of lies.

[mr blur]

4. Yep, it's on their website

http://nightwish.com/en/news#2490

[mr blur]

9. Photographic proof!!