Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumif there was ever any doubt that religious belief is a form of mental illness...
...just watch this video of Glenn Moon, who is running for city council in Lovonia, MI. Testify, Glenn!
Glenn is most assuredly off his meds.
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immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
mike_c
(36,270 posts)...like Glenn circle the wagons and prevent any shred of rationality from being represented in politics. The asylum is indeed run by the lunatics.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 22, 2012, 08:57 PM - Edit history (1)
City Council meetings will last hours if they have to say "god, in name Jesus Christ, lord savior messiah Vera Chuck & Dave a whop bopalua a whop bam boo!" every 3 minutes! Eliminating the indefinite articles and prepositions does not take off enough time!
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)doesn't even live close to the babble belt. This country really depresses me sometimes.
Warpy
(111,169 posts)that a church or "rescue mission" might be a much more appropriate place to indulge their fantasies of rescuing the rest of us than a city council would be.
I can see this idiot turning down any zoning request that doesn't involve construction of a church--of his particular flavor, of course.
frogmarch
(12,153 posts)that guy ever nutz.
amyrose2712
(3,391 posts)laconicsax
(14,860 posts)I think arguments can be (and have been) made toward each possibility, but I'm not swayed by some of them.
Is religious belief a form of mental illness? I doubt it.
Is religious belief a manifestation of mental illness? Depending on the person, it could be.
Is religious belief a cause of mental illness? I think that depends on your definition of illness. A religious DUer once described their belief in terms identical to a definition of cognitive dissonance, so if your definitions are broad enough it could be argued that religious belief can cause mental illness.
I think that to call religious belief a form of mental illness is to distort the reality of the relation between the two. I'm not sure that the guy in the video is exhibiting signs of mental illness either. Don't confuse fervor with illness.
mike_c
(36,270 posts)When someone claims to be guided by invisible beings with super powers-- not only with a straight face but with the full assurance of broad cultural acceptance-- that live in the sky, fight with demons, etc, I mean, not as allegory or metaphor, but as though they really experience these things even when it's patently obvious that they don't....
That's delusion, plain and simple. No, I don't think every delusion indicates mental illness-- often we're just WRONG about stuff, but consider this-- what about people whose delusions are so strong that when confronted with evidence that they're delusions, they STILL cannot alter their delusional thinking? What if they seem unable to learn and act upon rational information about the real world around them, as opposed to the spirit world they imagine?
It's one thing to become engrossed in a movie, for example, suspending disbelief, experiencing real emotion and excitement as the story develops, and quite another to be unable to understand that the movie isn't true, that it isn't real life. I think that's a good analogy since ALL religion derives from stories unless one is prepared to accept that supernatural things really happen. So is an inability to separate real experience from myths and superstitions mental illness? I think it is, despite being so widespread as to be arguably the primary human condition.
laconicsax
(14,860 posts)Religion allows people to do by the billions what only a madman would do in private.
The question is whether the beliefs and practices that can seem insane stem from actual illness or merely from compartmentalized thought or learned suspension of disbelief.
To use an example, believing that saying a few Latin words will turn a stack of pancakes into the flesh of Elvis Presley could be taken as a sign of mental illness, but if that belief and practice is taught from a young age and widely endorsed, it could be done by an otherwise sane individual who merely suspends belief because it's a learned, ingrained behavior.
As far as clinging to beliefs when confronted by contrary evidence, that's just simple belief perseverance. It isn't at all unique to religion.
mike_c
(36,270 posts)"The question is whether the beliefs and practices that can seem insane stem from actual illness or merely from compartmentalized thought or learned suspension of disbelief. "
If someone is told that they need to wash their hands every five minutes, and their behavior is reinforced until they do, it seems that's indistinguishable from real obsession UNLESS they can change their behavior relatively easily, when given alternate choices to evaluate. If the outcome is the same, why have a debate over whether the cause is mental illness or whether the behavior is simply the same as would be expected from the mentally ill?
I do understand that at some point, we need to know in order to understand how to proceed, but it seems to me that, as a first step, if a set of actions is indistinguishable from aberrant behavior, then an appropriate response might be indistinguishable from treatment for mental illness.
yellerpup
(12,253 posts)I don't visit my spirit-filled relatives in Oklahoma who begin every sentence with: "I'm a Bible-believing Christian AND" or, "I'm a Bible-believing Christian, BUT." This guy will win all the votes of his congregation, but I hope others show up to block his election. Sick, sick fellow.
MarkCharles
(2,261 posts)believing everyone can ever get this screwed up by religion, but religion does kind of invite many of these people to go off their tracks.
So is this guy still stark raving insane or did he get treatment?
mike_c
(36,270 posts)We’ll jump over some famous international (non-American) candidates, such as the incoherently babblingly insane loose cannon and ignoramus Viscount Monckton and the infamous virologist and Noble Prize winner Luc Montagnier, whose subsequent career has taken a slightly disconcerting turn.
Glenn Moon (not related to Sun Myung other than in spirit) may have received less attention, but he is surely no more in touch with reality. In 2009 Glenn Moon attempted to run for City Council in Livonia. You can watch a speech of his before the Livonia City Council meeting here. I am unable to discern exactly what policy he is suggesting, but in what is basically one unbroken sentence there are at least references to the police force in the 16th district and an unhealthy number of occurrences of “Heavenly Father Almighty God in name God Son Jesus Christ Lord Savior Messiah” for a single sentence. It seems to be clear that Moon thinks his speech is delivered by “world historic spiritual leader prophet of God in name Jesus Glenn Moon” (“I” is generally more elegant), and that he views it as his responsibility to “lead this world of lost human souls to eternal salvation through Jesus” (which he makes to sound uncannily like he’s suggesting a Jim Jones move). It’s all weirdly and adorably reminiscent of Dr. Bronner’s Soap.
In general his political platform seems to have been centered on abortion, littering, firing non-believers and paying city employees a salary of $1 per year plus the love of Jesus Christ.
Diagnosis: Probably in need of professional care. Relatively harmless (and no, he didn’t get elected, although I guess the existence of Michele Bachmann means that I had to point that out).
MarkCharles
(2,261 posts)They all speak in run-on sentences, too.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)
TruthBeTold65
(203 posts)with vile words against the non-believer with full-on spitting with veins popping and everything.
Wow!
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)And capitalizes random words in semi-coherent Internet rants.