Giving "Thanks"

[PassingFair]

Just wanted to have a little discussion, in keeping with the holiday...

How do you feel about the whole idea of "thanking" an unseen benefactor
for your "blessings" while stuffing your own faces full of food?

The whole "thankfulness" issue that makes Xtians and other believers feel
so good (or abject?) eludes me completely.

Don't get me wrong, I feel an enormous sense of gratitude (and EXPRESS it!) for those who
have helped me or shaped me or helped my children throughout my life so far.
I just don't understand the head bowed, thank you for not letting me starve grovelling
people do to their "gods". Never mind that they don't bother thanking those who REALLY
help....I don't remember ever hearing my sister-in-law thank the state for giving her
disability payments. Or thank her husband's union for making sure that he was paid
on time and got triple pay for working holidays.....

I suppose I could thank the "universe", but I don't think the universe gives a crap!
Instead, we go around my Thanksgiving table and say what we are thankful FOR, and
who we may be thankful TO, but it is much more personal and real.

When I was a kid the "grace" we had to say before meals was short (but NOT, I thought) sweet.
"For what we are about to receive, may the lord make us truly thankful".

I ALREADY WAS thankful! For the dinner my mother made. For the jokes my father told.
For the company of my brothers....everything.

What do you think makes god believers feel SO good about thanking anonymous heavenly benefactors?

[kdmorris]

1. The whole idea of giving thanks is kind of stupid to me

It supposes that there is someone or something to thank. Add to this the pressure to eat an enormous amount of food while others on the planet are starving to death just turns me off further. (And I have Diabetes, so unless I shoot myself up with massive amounts of insulin, there is no way I can eat that much food).

We do try to get together with family but limit dinner to just what we would normally have - with maybe a couple of desserts. I do try to think about all the good things that have happened to me - but then I try to do that every day.

I find it funny that the whole day of thanks giving is followed up by the greediest day of the year - Black Friday. Another "tradition" that I refuse to participate in - and have refused to do so for years.

[Brainstormy]

2. I hear you

and find it awkward, and a little annoying, when my family offers up prayers of thanks to god for the meal I bought and cooked for them on Thanksgiving, but I always allow them their little ritual before we sit down. I do not bow my head or close my eyes. I need to set this example for the children who, I hope, will one day question me about my non-belief. I do, however, enjoy the "everybody tell something you're grateful for" ritual. I try to choose something like the farmworkers who picked our produce or the animal who gave its life. I definitely agree with you that one can be thankful without being religious.

[PassingFair]

3. You are a more gracious host than I am!

I will observe a moment of silence during "grace" at someone else's house,
but they will have to pray silently at mine (if they don't want to risk getting talked OVER)!

[trotsky]

4. I am thankful for what real people have done for me.

The farmers who bust their asses to grow my food.

The truckers who drive miles to deliver it.

The grocers who work long hours to sell it.

Gods have nothing to do with it. Bart Simpson's prayer sums it up for me: "Dear god: We paid for this stuff ourselves, so thanks for nothing."

Thanking gods in this day and age seems to me like a throwback to when our primitive ancestors figured some outside agent was responsible for good fortune, and they had better show their gratitude or they'll be due for a smiting.

[PassingFair]

5. Do you think that those who pray today fear that smiting?

Or do you think it's just lip service?

[trotsky]

6. I think some do.

For others it's just a habit. Or something to show off their piety.

[Heddi]

7. you're being plagiarized and mocked in another forum, btw

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218165776

Notice the op can't even be bothered to note those questions aren't his own, but taken wholesale from your post.

[AtheistCrusader]

9. DAMN I just got beat. Wow.

[trotsky]

10. Jeebus, some folks are obsessed with us. n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

12. 20 minute lag on that one.

Coincidence, or subscription to RSS feed? I'm thinking Sub.

[Gelliebeans]

20. We're good

Enough and smart enough and doggone it people like us.

[AtheistCrusader]

8. I see this thread was echoed to Religion by someone.

How nice of them to do so without context.

[PassingFair]

11. I had no idea they were so SECULAR!!

[Warren Stupidity]

13. Luckily god has never been belched out in our thanksgiving celebrations.

But within the historical context the holiday is dubious for other reasons.

[AlbertCat]

14. Never forget Bart Simpson's "grace" at dinner....

(paraphrasing)

"We had to clear the land, plough the fields, plant the crops, water and tend the crops, harvest and pick them, transport them, cook them.... thanks for nothin' god!"

[Cartoonist]

15. It's not about thanks, it's about submission

That's what religion is best at. It's not a case of thanking God, it's a demand that EVERYONE bow their head. Everyone must show subservience to the Almighty.

[PassingFair]

22. Wow! Thank you for that insight.

I hadn't thought about that aspect of the requirement.

You are right.

[Cartoonist]

23. Can the corn

You know that's the drill. Are you going to say grace silently today or are you going to ask everyone to join you?

[PassingFair]

24. I was being sincere.

I'm an atheist who doesn't say grace.

I was wondering about the mindset of those who do, and I honestly
didn't consider the authoritarian aspect of it being demanded of me
as a child.

[Cartoonist]

25. My apologies then

My pronouncements are usually met with scorn by the faithful.

[PassingFair]

26. No worries!

Your pronouncement hit home this time!

[onager]

16. VERY thankful I'll be dining with another atheist and his family...

So we won't have any issues at all with that prayer thing.

My friend has 3 grown kids and 7 grandchildren, ranging in age from 17 to 3. So Thanksgiving should be...lively!

BTW, I'm thankful to you for starting this discussion. I just read the hijack of it in That Other Forum. That really sucked, especially the nagging from the usual suspects. They should be thankful to us for providing them so much free entertainment.

[PassingFair]

18. I've never been hijacked like that before...

it surprised me!

Hope you feast yourself silly tomorrow!

[deucemagnet]

17. I've never really seen Thanksgiving as a religious thing.

I like both the sentiment of Thanksgiving and the way it's celebrated. I see the sentiment as "appreciate what you have and realize that many have it worse", rather than "thank God". I think that's a good thing to reflect on periodically, and it implies that we have some responsibility to take care of those who have it worse. As far as how it's celebrated, there's no gift-giving, no cloying songs and few gaudy decorations. There's just a meal with friends and/or family followed by the Detroit Lions losing a football game. That's my kind of holiday.

As far as people stuffing their faces with food goes, that's a pretty minor vice that I find somewhat excusable on a holiday celebrated with a feast. There is a time in most people's adult lives when they look at the "All You Can Eat" sign at a buffet and stop taking it as a personal challenge, but if one's annoying relative wants to test his gastronomic prowess against a plate of food piled to the size of his head, let him knock himself out and be thankful that you only see the fucker twice a year.

[Gelliebeans]

19. I'm thankful

For the free thinkers, atheists and humanists before me.
The pioneers of modern science.
For Copernicus

For those that were cast out because they didn't conform from pressure instead they continued to look for the truth within the confines of science for the good of us all.

Thankful for AA forum here for over a decade hanging tough and speaking out.

[RussBLib]

21. nothing wrong with expressing gratitude

Americans are an arrogant lot and anything that makes them pause and express that gratitude is cool with me. Humility is a very good thing.

I remember way back when I was a little tyke, my father would say "grace" before we set upon the turkey at Thanksgiving. I clearly remember thinking, "why thank God for this meal? Momma is the one who has been working hard in the kitchen all morning." But I didn't say anything about it.

Speaking of gratitude
I am grateful to be born in America
Grateful to be born in this (relatively) modern age
Grateful to my parents who sacrificed a lot for us four kids
Really grateful for my wonderful wife
A good job
A nice place to live
A couple of cool sisters
Grateful to all of those who went before, blazing a path for science
Grateful to all the freethinkers who suffered for their thoughts
Grateful to all of those who give to the less fortunate
Grateful to all who have suffered to better mankind
Grateful to all of our veterans who have defended our freedoms
Grateful for the cantankerous DU and this A&A Group
Grateful we have not yet destroyed this beautiful planet we call home
and so much more; a list too long to place here

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.